Karen and Ruby
Well-known member
Ooh I forgot to thank Sandy for explaining the breeding process in a bit more detail to me
Karen
Karen
Ooh I forgot to thank Sandy for explaining the breeding process in a bit more detail to me
Karen
Could I be allowed this comment.
Much mention is being made on the Cavalier Chat List at the moment ,on how Cavalier Breeders are feeling the same Pain as we Cavalier Pet Owners have,when we lost our Cherished Cavaliers at young ages, I know how dreadful it is to have our Pet die at any age, but, and I will stick to the MVD Cavalier Problem, I know more about it.
If has been claimed by those Cavalier Breeders , who feel distraught when their Cavalier dies, why on earth ,when the Ball was in their Court ,did they persist in Breeding Cavaliers who were dying at a young age from Heart Trouble.
There are some Cavalier Breeders trying their best ,as Karlin mentiond in fighting those Two Diseases afflicting the Breed,,so when Cavalier Breeders claim to understand the Distress we Cavalier Pet Owners know about when our Beloved Pet dies, then for goodness sake let all those Cavalier Breeders work with the Researchers ,Researching SM and MVD,pass on all the information they can .
Finally as Karlin also said, we Cavalier Pet Owners have our part to play in this, what an Important tool we now have, the INTERNET .
Spread the word ,don't buy from a Cavalier Breeder who has not carried out Health Tests on their Cavalier Breeding Stock .
Always ask to see a Health Certificate from a Cavalier Breeder showing that they have been concerned enough to have been Health Checking their Breeding Stock.
Bet
I think you do some of these breeders a disservice when you seem to question whether they feel pain when they lose a much cherished dog. There can be no doubt that they will feel pain just as you do.
They recent posts on what causes MVD and SM have shown that both these problems are likely to be caused by a number of genes in each case. Breeding these problems out will take years and years.
I think you are bashing the wrong breeders. The ones you've just had a go at on the other forum are the ones who do test their dogs. Give credit where it's due. Just because you have fallen out with them, please don't turn against the very ones who are trying.
Elspeth,
Some bashing is without doubt necessary but YOU are to the best of my knowledge NOT one of them to be so bashed. You have great knowledge and have been scanning for many years.
So how do you then suggest I and my fellow-breeders explain to our puppy-buyers that we are in fact 'the good guys' when they have been left feeling that breeders, in general 'don't care'?
Who is to say that we are telling the truth?
I think it is very important to remember that there are people on the forum who may have acquired new puppies from very reliable sources.
The first few weeks can be rather daunting anyway for a novice owner , so a little sensitivity in this area might be helpful.
Spare a thought for them.
Of course it is important to carry out testing and many many breeders now are doing just that.
So please, allow them to get on, in peace, with what they know best.
I think the time has come to dispense with the 'bashing'.
As Sue has said: you are preaching to the converted.
Elspeth Glen
As Sue has said: you are preaching to the converted.
So how do you then suggest I and my fellow-breeders explain to our puppy-buyers that we are in fact 'the good guys' when they have been left feeling that breeders, in general 'don't care'?
Who is to say that we are telling the truth?.
Are you absolutely sure that heart problems are worse now than in the past? I don't know.
According to the Cavalier Club cardiologist the heart problems are no better despite having a Cavalier Club heart testing scheme for over 18 years.
The heart medications are better and now buys MVD cavaliers more time, but at a considerable monetary cost to the owner
The problem is always with definition, how when writing a post do you manage to show that you are only talking about the breeders that are not breeding to the protocols?
Many cavalier owners visit these forums. I see posting here as a way of countering the inaccurate and misleading information put out by some of the top breeders that have most influence in cavalier circles.
I respect Elspeth as one of the most intelligent breeders I know, a lady who was one of the first to scan her cavaliers. I am truly sorry she feels that the ongoing discussions reflect badly on breeders of her calibre, but I am afraid in this case I do not agree that criticism of unethical breeders should stop.
I would like to think your health certificates, and an explanation of how carefully you follow the breeding protocols, would do that.
While the people that are seen to represent breeders, the club members who get themselves elected onto committees that give them a powerful voice in the future of the breed, continue to defend the indefensible (the continued use of an early onset SM stud dog, or multiple C. sections in a bitch mated on three consecutive seasons) then the reputation of breeders will suffer.
If breeders of integrity allow these people to run cavalier clubs & appear to speak on behalf of the whole cavalier breeding community, then the ethical breeders will continue to be identified with the 'bad guys'
Pet owners may be justified in drawing the conclusion that breeders in general 'don't care'
There is a saying 'The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.'
Define unethical: Is overbreeding a stud dog unethical??? It IS asking for trouble.
Our reputations ARE ALL READY IN THE TRASH. Thank to the PDE-- one puppy buyer recently believes that a broker importing cavaliers from Ireland (who doesn't show-- this is just a broker) is where they should be buying a cavalier puppy in the USA. THAT way the puppy won't be tainted by show breeders breeding for looks. AND it was half the price of a show breeder pup.
Congratulations-- you are now indirectly promoting puppy brokers.
I wish I could see actual statistics instead of one doctors word being taken as the end all be ALL for cavaliers (and thus the doom and gloom).
According to my cardiologist-- he has seen improvements and MANY breeders keep dogs into their mid teens have told you that they don't see "HALF OF ALL CAVALIERS GETTING MURMURS" by 5.
Things may be different in the USA. As I frequently point out I am talking about the UK.
This one cardiologist has been receiving results from Cavalier Club members for a great many years, so I would think he knows what he is talking about