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CRATING WOES...

LMAO at the salary rise. Puppy training is darned hard work and you have to be (as I'm sure you are) consistent.

Lino is imho too easily chewed and if I were having a doggy room built I would go for ceramic tiles and, if I could afford it, underfloor heating :flwr:

The house we lived in before this one was a new build and we left Maxx with the run of the hall, dining room and kitchen whlst we went food shopping. We got back an hour later to find a lovely pile of chewed up lino had been left in the hall for us. Not much left on the kitchen floor though :lol: It was coming up anyway but actually came up sooner than anticipated :lol:

I do appreciate the fact that you obviously care for and really love those pups but am inclined to still say that I wouldn't leave them outside alone for all the reasons Nancy and I have already mentioned and plenty more.

My two usually adore each other but today I went to the local shop with my youngest and left my two in the garden chewing on these natural meaty crocodile shaped chews. Ten minutes later my eldest rang my mobile to say that he'd had to break up a fight and confiscate the chews.

We suspect Charlie as being the instigator as unless he realises he's being watched he tries to steal whatever Maxx has got as well as his own :roll:

Obviously, Rhys was there and stopped the fight & Maxx then skulked off into the house and lay down sulking. Charlie however had them on him until I put him to bed and kept nipping Maxx's ears & pushing him out the way. I almost sent him to bed with no dinner :roll: :lol:
 
Cockerspaniel said:
MM, I greatly appreciate the constructive advice. Tell me what you think of the following: I'm open to instruction, as I'm new to the dog thing!

I left the patio door open quite a bit today and had two poos and about six wees. Too much. It's as if my 6 weeks of toilet training has born no fruit whatsoever! And this, despite hovering around them for a lot of time, watching for signs and giving them plenty of time and encouragement to do the business outside...Boo hoo!
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If they are 12 weeks old they might not have the bladder control to deal with a military style of training. Much like one year old children in that respect. You would never expect a one year old to be potty trained. I do know of a person who was pottytrained by 18 months old (parents were military intelligence). She is manic - depressive and has many issues.
Have you considered a litterbox in an x-pen? Just another alternative- Sandy
 
Cockerspaniel said:
I left the patio door open quite a bit today and had two poos and about six wees. Too much. It's as if my 6 weeks of toilet training has born no fruit whatsoever! And this, despite hovering around them for a lot of time, watching for signs and giving them plenty of time and encouragement to do the business outside...Boo hoo!
Click to expand...

Also, the problem is, if you don't "set them up for success" they don't know what success is! IE....let them take a nap inside, confined, and as soon as they wake up, take them outside and when they pee, praise to high heaven. If they are outside all the time, and you aren't there, they don't know that anything they did was right or wrong.
 
Maxxs_Mummy said:
My patio door is usually open all day long for the dogs as 9 times out of 10 there is someone here with them. However, the other day, we still had a pee from Charlie on the washable rug right by the door :roll:

Tbh, if you have dogs you should really expect the occasional accident and with pups you should be prepared for the pees and poops....
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Zack was house trained a long time ago, no going inside the house in probably 4 months--he'll be 9 months old in a week or so. He used to scratch on the door to ask to go out. Then, i started leaving the patio door open all the time when i was home, and he never needed to ask to go out. In addition to going in and out to the backyard, he goes to the dog park a few times per week, and goes for a walk with me every night.

My nextdoor neighbor called yesterday and said there was a racoon hanging out in her backyard lately, and she said she thought it was acting strangely. She said it got into a fight with a cat. So, i closed the screen door. for at least a couple of weeks, Zack has been charging outside toward the fence and jumping straight up and is looking up, and i thought it was squirrels in the trees. Maybe it was the racoon on the fence. Anyway, i couldn't persuade him not to bark so i started closing the screen door at night even before yesterday. It never occurred to me to worry about Zack going potty inside the house. But last night i found a giant pee on the kitchen floor. And then i found a poop in the bathroom, scattered over both rugs. :yuk: The good news was, earlier in the day at the dog park he had a loose stool, possibly due to switching to Innova Evo the day before, but the poop last night was firm. A miracle. It made me feel better. But since he hasn't had an 'accident' since he was trained, i was very unprepared mentally and it was upsetting.

But now I'm prepared. The thing is, clearly he has forgotten about scratching on the door and asking to go out, and the task before me is how to teach him to do that again. Off hand, i'm not sure how to do that.
It seems harder than teaching him the first time around.
 
This has been an interesting thread with a good range of discussion I think.

Some thoughts on housetraining, and dogs being left outside:

I agree with the very high value treats for doing their business -- this REALLY helps move the process along (so to speak!). I gave bits of cooked sausage or chicken for poops as that was what I really did not want done inside and Jaspar very quickly got the idea -- his concentration sure improved when I went from a bit of kibble or cheese as a reward to meat! :lol:

On dogs being left outside -- I would strongly, strongly recommend these two be housedogs and only in the garden when people are home AND they are supervised. The main reason is there has been a huge spate of dog theft in Ireland -- papers have been covering it recently -- and cavaliers are a prime target as would be cockers, but cavaliers in particular. They are stolen to order for people in the UK (the people think they are working with rescues and are on waiting lists; then gangs steal to order in Ireland!) or taken and sold on to puppy farms (there are dozens of them out in the west :yikes ) -- where the dog will live in a cage and produce pups for the rest of its life (see my puppy farm section which describes two Irish puppy farm situations). Cavaliers are probably the number one target for puppy farm or steal-to-order because they are small, there's always a ready market for them, and they are a favourite of puppy farm breeders (the latter is also why it is so important to neuter the dogs and then, have tags on the dog that clearly state it is microchipped and neutered -- this will often mean the thieves will abandon the dog which then has a much better chance to be handed in and returned to the owner. I know of several cases of this apprently happening with neutered males, where that status is more obvious!). Sometimes these gentle breeds are even stolen to use to bait fighting dogs. This is a huge problem, according to the SPCAs or those working in animal welfare. :(

Cavaliers in particular are very much an indoor lap dog, like yorkies or maltese, and can develop personality problems left outside (they are great outdoor dogs too but in the company of a person). I have seen quite a few like this, that have come in to rescue in Ireland. Two of them I had to place in experienced homes who could work with the behaviour issues. Both these breeds are very easy to have inside; if they can go in and out when someone is there to watch them, but spend all other time inside, that's the best situation. Cavaliers in particular usually do not really want to be out alone or even with another dog; they want to be with you.

I'd also be very careful about giving the two puppies lots of alone time together outside anyway, as this greatly facilitates the main problem of getting two pups at the same time -- they bond very closely to each other and not very well to you, which can cause behaviour and training problems as they get older (it is one reason why many trainers and breeders do not recommend people get two puppies together). Of course you can have great success too with two pups at the same time and it can also be lots of fun :), but it does take a a lot of extra work, making sure each is trained separately, gets separate attention, etc. There's lots of info out on the web on managing this situation successfully. 8)

Link with more links and info: http://www.cavaliertalk.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1956
 
Thanks, everyone, for the excellent feedback.

Righto, they are coming back in!
 
I have just had the opportunity to read this very interesting thread. I think the person who said culturally there may be some differences in the uses of crates had a valid point. I live in Canada and I can tell you that in almost every puppy school the use of the crate is recommended as it is in most dog training books. When we go to our breeders and see crates we believe that they are endorsed by our breeders who find them necessary for various aspects of managing a multi-dog (4-5+) household. If you have training or behavioural difficulties, the first question always asked is "do you crate" and if you respond no then there is a head-shake from the questionner and if you say yes then you are doing it wrong:-S.

That is speaking from my personal experience, not any voice of authority on the subject. All I can say is that I tried the crate thing. I had the best of intentions but it came down to this - I love the snuffly breath beside my ear, I love the wriggling up to my face in the morning as I am waking up, I love the way Finn rearranges himself into the nooks and crannies while we are asleep and I even have come to love the snoring:-S. Finnegan has and has always had a crate. Finn will go and lie in his crate for naps during the day and did not need to be trained to do this - it is probably more comfortable than my bed and it doesn't keep waking him up every time it shifts (like my lap when I have to keep changing load of laundry;-).

The primary use of the crate in our house is still for Finns protection but rather than keeping him from hurting himself or having accidents (which potty training took care of nicely I am happy to say) it is to keep him safe from harassing children.

All of the kids have been taught that if and when Finn is in his crate that is "his" place and time. He is a lovable dog and plays with them and cuddles but has figured out that the kids are not allowed in there and when he is tired of the baby chasing him, and my daughter dressing him, and the kids just generally over loving him he goes in to his crate, curls up and rests his head on his paws and just watches over everything and naps until he is ready to throw himself back into the fray (which does happen:). We all have our end points of tolerance and when Finn is at the end of his, his crate is his haven. The kids respect that and we have never had any aggression incidents and we have never had an antisocial puppy either.

I do however think that this means I may have crate-trained the children and not the dog! ;)
 
:) I like the last answer with the kids knowing not to harassing the dog when he is in the crate I do not use a crate wiyh my dogs but do understand the need sometimes Aileen
 
I bought a crate for Merlin - it was big enugh for a labrador. I unpacked it and thought no......... I've grown up with Golden retrievers and the only time one was ever created was a puppy that my mum fostered for a shortwhile as it had broken its leg.

Merlin as a pup used to have the kitchen when we were out. Easy clean floor as you can't shout if there's an aciident - after all its your fault that you weren't there to spot the signs. At night ( well actually the 1st night he cried in the kitchen on his own so my other half brought him upstairs - much against my reasoning that he shouldn't. He stayed dry all night.....

After then we just put wee pads in the bathroom which has a wooden floor for him to go to in the night if we didn't hear him - it didn't matter if he missed as the floo is easily cleaned.

Now at night he cries at the top of the stairs he he needs the toilet and we know thats the sign for toilet!

If we have to leave him during the day ( he now goes to Grandmas during work hours) - he has the whole house bar a room which has a lot of wires and stuff. He just goes to sleep on our bed....... doesn't bother and has not once had an accident.

he's such a good boy and thats without a crate.

I do know some people with other breeds that have used crates because their dogs have been destructive and the only way they have been able to resolve damaged houses is to crate for a short time.

I think it all depends on what feels right to you and what is right for your dog....
 
I have been reading all the treads about crates. I too hadnt heard of one until my daughter got Kayla. She didnt do badly but did used to cry at times.
With Abby though, she only cried the first night. I put the crate in the sitting room where we stay most of the time. During the day it is open . and she goes in it often to sleep or play. She seems to love it and never cries when I put her in it to go out.
Of course I am home most of the time so she is never left for very long. At the most two hours , when I go to the hairdresser. Or out to eat.
I find it very convenient as she is safe and so are my things.
 
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