I am about to welcome a cavalier puppy soon! I would like to know if her low weight should be a concern. At 8 weeks she was 1.2 pounds and different websites predict she will be 7.8 lbs. when fully grown. We already know she will blind in one eye and are worried about syringomelia.
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Is Evie too smalll?
- Thread starter Vicki Ann
- Start date
Hi and welcome! Your question really needs a bit more context -- are Evie's parents fully health tested, and is the breeder responsible and reputable, with established health tested breeding lines (and not just 'health-tested' by the vet, which doesn't meet the basic criteria for proper health testing in this breed ... cardiologist heart evaluation, a number of DNA tests, MRI, specialist eye tests etc)? If you're working with a reputable breeder, s/he should be able to tell you why this puppy is so undersized (eg , is she a litter runt? If so, she will likely catch up in weight to others in her litter). Unfortunately though, a lot of disreputable breeders aim to produce extra small dogs which are way under the breed standard and they do this by breeding already undersized dogs which are often runts or maybe, small due to undisclosed health issues.
Why is she going to be blind in one eye? Is this due to an underlying health condition like dry eye/curly coat syndrome? An accident?
If this is a rescue dog, or you don't know much about the breeder (a red flag) then you are of course dealing with many unknowns. It would be hard to say why she is so small but the cause could be health issues such as liver shunt (https://www.petmd.com/dog/general-health/liver-shunts-dogs-what-you-need-know). Runts do sometimes have health issues too, as opposed to just being the small one in the litter at the start, which often changes as they grow).
A reputable breeder will discuss the realities of SM with potential buyers and have testing certs and at least two-generation health results (parents are good, grandparents far more meaningful). Syringomyelia is very common in the breed though not always symptomatic. It can be managed but can be a lifelong cost. Many of my cavaliers over the years have had some degree of CM/SM. All have been managed with meds, but of course this isn't acceptable for the breed and breed clubs and breeders need to step up and start to do. more. The Swedish club has begun a carefully planned and supervised outcross programme to try and rescue the breed from both the numerous health issues, and the breed's close inbreeding.
If you haven't yet read the information pages at Cavaliermatters.org on buying a puppy and the breed health issues, I'd recommend doing so as the site lays these out, is easy to understand and informative. Some tests refer to the UK bodies that issue results but there are similar in the North America and elsewhere. Cavalierhealth.org has lots of international detail.
If you are dealing with a breeder of unknown reputation who is selling a very undersized puppy that will be blind in one eye and hasn't discussed why the pup is like this, or breed health issues like SM with you, or offered you extensive health and lineage paperwork on Evie's parents (at a minimum), I'd walk away from the breeder, as hard as that may be.
Why is she going to be blind in one eye? Is this due to an underlying health condition like dry eye/curly coat syndrome? An accident?
If this is a rescue dog, or you don't know much about the breeder (a red flag) then you are of course dealing with many unknowns. It would be hard to say why she is so small but the cause could be health issues such as liver shunt (https://www.petmd.com/dog/general-health/liver-shunts-dogs-what-you-need-know). Runts do sometimes have health issues too, as opposed to just being the small one in the litter at the start, which often changes as they grow).
A reputable breeder will discuss the realities of SM with potential buyers and have testing certs and at least two-generation health results (parents are good, grandparents far more meaningful). Syringomyelia is very common in the breed though not always symptomatic. It can be managed but can be a lifelong cost. Many of my cavaliers over the years have had some degree of CM/SM. All have been managed with meds, but of course this isn't acceptable for the breed and breed clubs and breeders need to step up and start to do. more. The Swedish club has begun a carefully planned and supervised outcross programme to try and rescue the breed from both the numerous health issues, and the breed's close inbreeding.
If you haven't yet read the information pages at Cavaliermatters.org on buying a puppy and the breed health issues, I'd recommend doing so as the site lays these out, is easy to understand and informative. Some tests refer to the UK bodies that issue results but there are similar in the North America and elsewhere. Cavalierhealth.org has lots of international detail.
If you are dealing with a breeder of unknown reputation who is selling a very undersized puppy that will be blind in one eye and hasn't discussed why the pup is like this, or breed health issues like SM with you, or offered you extensive health and lineage paperwork on Evie's parents (at a minimum), I'd walk away from the breeder, as hard as that may be.
OK, I just checked in with a reputable breeder I know about Evie's weight. She notes she has a small runt in her new litter and says:
"At 4 weeks he was 440g, so 440g is 1 lb... my litter runt is 1lb at 4 weeks. So, conclusion, there is something wrong there."
She too guesses this possibly could be due to liver shunt. I'm sorry to be passing along information you won't want to be hearing.
"At 4 weeks he was 440g, so 440g is 1 lb... my litter runt is 1lb at 4 weeks. So, conclusion, there is something wrong there."
She too guesses this possibly could be due to liver shunt. I'm sorry to be passing along information you won't want to be hearing.
Nicki
Moderator
Welcome Vicki Ann! We're delighted you've discovered the world of Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.
As Karlin has asked above, is this puppy coming from a breeder or from a rescue? In either case, hopefully they have provided you with more information? Is there a reason you are suspecting Syringomyelia? Do you know any family history?
Evie does sound very small - which may be ok but can have various physical causes. Do you know if her littermates were small too?
Why is she blind in one eye?
Hopefully you are already aware that generally it is not possible to obtain pet insurance for pre-exisiting health conditions?
I'm sure you have already fallen in love with Evie and it would be hard to walk away; however you should be aware of what you may be taking on, dealing wtih health issues is very draining emotionally and physically, as well as financially.
As Karlin has asked above, is this puppy coming from a breeder or from a rescue? In either case, hopefully they have provided you with more information? Is there a reason you are suspecting Syringomyelia? Do you know any family history?
Evie does sound very small - which may be ok but can have various physical causes. Do you know if her littermates were small too?
Why is she blind in one eye?
Hopefully you are already aware that generally it is not possible to obtain pet insurance for pre-exisiting health conditions?
I'm sure you have already fallen in love with Evie and it would be hard to walk away; however you should be aware of what you may be taking on, dealing wtih health issues is very draining emotionally and physically, as well as financially.
Dear Karlin and Nicki,
Thank you very much for your replies and information. The purchase of Evie is not what we expected although I think the breeder is reputable. I apologize. I gave you the incorrect numbers earlier. Evie was 1.10 lbs when 5 1/2 weeks. That will change her expected final size and i'll go back and figure this again. When we purchased her, we were not told there were problems. Just that she was very small and would need to stay longer to leave her mother. A short time later I got a call saying that at that day's vet visit. A problem was noticed in her right eye. They said it could be either a scratch or a corneal abrasion. Every few days I would get updates until one day they said she would probably lose sight in that eye. Another day they said something might be wrong with her left eye. They offered to refund the money saying Evie was not sale able anymore. If I didn't take her she would go to a shelter of some type. It might be hard to understand but my daughter and I already love her just from the photos and videos. We've been preparing for her arrival as if a human baby was coming. I can't stand the thought of her going to a shelter. Then who knows what would happen to her? We decided early on that we would keep her no matter what happened. We have found a good eye specialist for animals in the area and also a vet. As far as her size goes, her siblings are average size except for one sister who is around her size.
Again, thank you very much for responding.
Vicki Ann
Thank you very much for your replies and information. The purchase of Evie is not what we expected although I think the breeder is reputable. I apologize. I gave you the incorrect numbers earlier. Evie was 1.10 lbs when 5 1/2 weeks. That will change her expected final size and i'll go back and figure this again. When we purchased her, we were not told there were problems. Just that she was very small and would need to stay longer to leave her mother. A short time later I got a call saying that at that day's vet visit. A problem was noticed in her right eye. They said it could be either a scratch or a corneal abrasion. Every few days I would get updates until one day they said she would probably lose sight in that eye. Another day they said something might be wrong with her left eye. They offered to refund the money saying Evie was not sale able anymore. If I didn't take her she would go to a shelter of some type. It might be hard to understand but my daughter and I already love her just from the photos and videos. We've been preparing for her arrival as if a human baby was coming. I can't stand the thought of her going to a shelter. Then who knows what would happen to her? We decided early on that we would keep her no matter what happened. We have found a good eye specialist for animals in the area and also a vet. As far as her size goes, her siblings are average size except for one sister who is around her size.
Again, thank you very much for responding.
Vicki Ann
Oh dear. To be honest there's just no way this is a reputable breeder (are they national or breed club registered?) -- they'd have been more upfront and I promise that no responsible breeder would send a puppy of their breeding to a shelter, I cannot even imagine any breeder I have known over the past decades doing this and I've known many in several countries. My breeder friend whom I mention above said her runt who was this size was very ill and emaciated, and had to be hand fed for several days but fortunately pulled through, but she noted to me this evening that such a weight is really, really small -- if she has two this size, that too is very worrying. On the eye -- you should be given far more information that this vague discussion of maybe-this and maybe-that! This could well be dry eye/curly coat syndrome, by the description, and if so, there will be a lifetime of difficult and costly management of any cavalier with this condition.
I'd ask to speak directly with her vet and would only do so by having been given the actual practice name so that you can look it up online to phone the listed number, not a number she gives you, and ensure you are talking to an actual vet and not someone pretending to be one. Or have the eye specialist you have in mind speak directly to her vet, as this all sounds... pretty strange. A corneal abrasion from an accident, say, would not suddenly also affect the other eye. I'm so sorry but she sounds like a scammer and if you do take this puppy, she should not charge you a penny. Just please be aware of what you may be getting into, and know you cannot insure this dog, as Nicki notes, so all care will have to be out of your own pocket as these are pre-existing conditions. I'm sorry this has ended up being your experience with a cavalier breeder and your first puppy. I do understand how difficult it is to walk away. But she 100% should not charge you for this puppy if you do take her.
My breeder friend whom I mention above said her runt who was this size was very ill and emaciated, and had to be hand fed for several days but fortunately pulled through, but she noted to me this evening that such a weight is really, really small -- if she has two this size, that too is very worrying. On the eye -- you should be given far more information that this vague discussion of maybe-this and maybe-that! This could well be dry eye/curly coat syndrome, by the description, and if so, there will be a lifetime of difficult and costly management of any cavalier with this condition.I'd ask to speak directly with her vet and would only do so by having been given the actual practice name so that you can look it up online to phone the listed number, not a number she gives you, and ensure you are talking to an actual vet and not someone pretending to be one. Or have the eye specialist you have in mind speak directly to her vet, as this all sounds... pretty strange. A corneal abrasion from an accident, say, would not suddenly also affect the other eye. I'm so sorry but she sounds like a scammer and if you do take this puppy, she should not charge you a penny. Just please be aware of what you may be getting into, and know you cannot insure this dog, as Nicki notes, so all care will have to be out of your own pocket as these are pre-existing conditions. I'm sorry this has ended up being your experience with a cavalier breeder and your first puppy. I do understand how difficult it is to walk away. But she 100% should not charge you for this puppy if you do take her.
After discussing with others, this really does sound like dry eye/curly coat syndrome, I am afraid, as this is how it presents in puppies. Any good breeder can easily prevent this horrible condition by simply DNA testing their breeding stock. You can get a confirmation of whether it is dry eye/curly coat by arranging a DNA test with your vet.
There's more info here:
cavalierhealth.org
There's much debate on whether it is kinder to euthanise puppies born with this syndrome as they will lead a life of much pain and will need extensive daily care for their skin and their eyes. I'd not take this puppy without arranging a DNA test for this condition and then, discuss her potential quality of life with your trusted vet for an honest opinion.
There's more info here:
Dry Eye / Curly Coat – Cavalier Matters
www.cavaliermatters.org
Curly Coat/Rough Coat Syndrome and the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel
Cavalier King Charles Spaniel health and severe genetic diseases.
There's much debate on whether it is kinder to euthanise puppies born with this syndrome as they will lead a life of much pain and will need extensive daily care for their skin and their eyes. I'd not take this puppy without arranging a DNA test for this condition and then, discuss her potential quality of life with your trusted vet for an honest opinion.