Puppy diagnosed with Dry Eye (KCS) + has a curly coat

[LeoTheCav]

Hello everyone! First time posting in this forum. I just picked up a puppy a week ago from a breeder in the North of Italy. She is 7 months old. The breeder advertises being a reputable breeder, testing the parents- who does all genetic and yearly tests - including MRI. When I asked for the genetic tests of this puppy, she was offended - and it turns out that the parents were not tested but they were cleared by "parentage." I was only able to collect cleared by parentage on the father's side. I have half the genetic tests for the puppy on the mom's side. Only the grandmother's genetic test I didn't have however her parents (the great grand parents) were tested and clear (I found their tests online).

Since getting the puppy, she has been diagnosed with KCS- which the breeder says is "impossible" and they saw no signs of it when she was with them. I went to two separate vets who made the exact same diagnosis.
Now - the puppy also has curly fur - she seems itchy a lot as well. I still have the chance to return her to the breeder who has been absolutely awful when we notified her of the situation - to the point of screaming & mocking us. The breeder is willing to refund 70% of the cost of the puppy or take it back per the contract. I wanted some advice here- I am torn. Looking at the genetic tests it looks like the puppy should be at worst a carrier, but is it possible to present with the disease even if you are just a carrier?
She is so sweet but I fear a terrible health issue that will be difficult to manage. Any input would be appreciated.

 

[Karlin]

Oh no -- what a terrible situation with this breeder. The first thing to say is that I'm not an expert here, but to me she appears to be affected, given the very curly coat and the existence of dry eye, and if she's affected, caring for her will be a challenge. There's a simple DNA test that will confirm the puppy's status: https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/he...ting-and-screening/dna-testing/dna-test-ccde/. Were the genetic tests you mention all for DY/CC? Both parents must be carriers to produce an affected puppy (and if she's affected, the breeder should never do this particular mating again and have her stock DNA tested). However this seems something she's unlikely to do, given your experience. She sure has all the signs of a poor breeder -- 'parentage' isn't a health test and while it's good that results of some tests are there for grandparents, you'd really want them for the parents, as they're the more significant point of inheritance.

I'm not sure where you're based but the UK KC has a list here of labs internationally, doing this genetic test. You can order a kit and then you just need a sample from the cheek: https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/he...ith-health-testing-and-screening/dna-testing/.

In your shoes, I'd do the DNA test on her and see what your results are and then consider next steps. Giving up a puppy you've bonded with is a challenge and painful, that's for sure. At the same time it is absolutely fair to feel managing this condition is not for you. It's a very personal decision. If this breeder is registered with her national breed club, and the puppies are registered, I'd file a complaint about her attitude and what you were told, and the health of this puppy. But I'd want to have the facts on the puppy's status first.

I'll see if I can get some of our more experienced members to respond too. She's an adorable puppy, and I can imagine how terribly difficult this is.

 

[Cavalier Matters]

Hello everyone! First time posting in this forum. I just picked up a puppy a week ago from a breeder in the North of Italy. She is 7 months old. The breeder advertises being a reputable breeder, testing the parents- who does all genetic and yearly tests - including MRI. When I asked for the genetic tests of this puppy, she was offended - and it turns out that the parents were not tested but they were cleared by "parentage." I was only able to collect cleared by parentage on the father's side. I have half the genetic tests for the puppy on the mom's side. Only the grandmother's genetic test I didn't have however her parents (the great grand parents) were tested and clear (I found their tests online).

Since getting the puppy, she has been diagnosed with KCS- which the breeder says is "impossible" and they saw no signs of it when she was with them. I went to two separate vets who made the exact same diagnosis.
Now - the puppy also has curly fur - she seems itchy a lot as well. I still have the chance to return her to the breeder who has been absolutely awful when we notified her of the situation - to the point of screaming & mocking us. The breeder is willing to refund 70% of the cost of the puppy or take it back per the contract. I wanted some advice here- I am torn. Looking at the genetic tests it looks like the puppy should be at worst a carrier, but is it possible to present with the disease even if you are just a carrier?
She is so sweet but I fear a terrible health issue that will be difficult to manage. Any input would be appreciated.

Absolutely heartbreaking situation - I'm so sorry. I am rather suspicious of this breeder's testing - she should at the very least have been able to show certificates for both parents and ideally grandparents. Many Kennel Clubs only accept one generation for being clear by parentage.

Dry eye/curly coat https://www.cavalierhealth.org/curly_coat.htm is a separate condition from dry eye https://www.cavalierhealth.org/dry_eye.htm - the former requires considerably more management and expensive veterinary treatment. Both conditions require frequent application of eye medication, regular veterinary appointments etc so you are committing to a lifetime of care. Given the breeder's response, it sounds like she is not likely to be supportive in future, sadly.

It is indeed incredibly hard to give up a puppy who you have, no doubt, fallen in love with - but you have to consider the future.

I think it would be sensible to have the DNA test, however please be aware that there is some evidence that cavaliers with only one of the mutated FAM83H genes can display symptoms of curly coat and dry eye.

I wish you well, whatever you decide - please do not feel guilty or bad if you do decide to return the puppy.