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Rescuing dogs

I tried to adopt a cat from a shelter many years ago, and they turned me away because I didn't already have a cat at home. :confused: They said cats get bored and need company, so they only adopt out to homes that have one or more cats already. I was floored!!!! I explained to them that I was an "at home mom", and the cat would received plenty of attention, but NO they wouldn't budge. :mad: I hope they have lightened up on the rules by now so more animals can be placed in nice homes.

You would be a very welcome home here to a kitten. My daughter just placed three, 10 week olds that two were going to be lovely long haired cats. Some cats (like my daughters Max) would love to be only cats.
 
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A woman was taken away because she ran money to the bell ringer at walmart and left her child for less than one minute strapped in the car.. Yes Virginia... people are watching. Another woman smacked her child in another parking lot and got brought up on charges of abuse. -- she smacked his diaper and didn't make a mark-- she still had to go to court.
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I feel that you're talking around all of my points with personal anecdotes. I'm sure all of those are true, but yet, should we stop trying to help children who are abused? Should we stop prosecuting those who abuse children because this happens?

If you're a good Mama to those babies, then you know you have nothing to fear. In fact, I would think instead of a blanket disavowal, it would be better to start thinking of compromises. What law can we come up with that would be fair to pet owners but also protect the animals?

I'm not the first or the last to think animals should not be labeled as property. Check this article out: http://www.oregonlive.com/pets/index.ssf/2009/09/divorce_and_separations_can_se.html

I think the more people's minds change about this, the closer we will be to having our animals recognized as more than property, and that will be the first step in making animal owners more responsible and educated.
 
I feel that you're talking around all of my points with personal anecdotes. I'm sure all of those are true, but yet, should we stop trying to help children who are abused? Should we stop prosecuting those who abuse children because this happens?

If you're a good Mama to those babies, then you know you have nothing to fear. In fact, I would think instead of a blanket disavowal, it would be better to start thinking of compromises. What law can we come up with that would be fair to pet owners but also protect the animals?

I'm not the first or the last to think animals should not be labeled as property. Check this article out: http://www.oregonlive.com/pets/index.ssf/2009/09/divorce_and_separations_can_se.html

I think the more people's minds change about this, the closer we will be to having our animals recognized as more than property, and that will be the first step in making animal owners more responsible and educated.

Well, one of the first things that is glaring apparent is that we love our pets. How we want them protected is the only dispute.

OK, A vets says that your 13 year old cavalier needs a 3000 surgery that is 20% likely to be successful. As property you can say, end my babies suffering now... 20% is unrealistic. AS non property... You could be required to do the surgery. or they take your dog and possibly fine you.
 
Well, let's find an equivalent in the medical world. You have a patient who can't speak for himself, your Dad, let's say, and you have the right to make his medical decisions since he can't. He is 97 years old. He has cancer. He is feeble, and chemotherapy has virtually no chance of working and might kill him in the process. Would anyone look down on you for saying, "No, let's not do the chemotherapy; I think he'd rather die in his sleep than on an operating table"?

Of course there are always going to be problems in the wording of every law, but I think these problems could be worked around successfully if we were only having more conversations like this--(which I am enjoying now very thoroughly, by the way!)
 
Really interesting discussion -- thanks for initiating it, Sandy. They are issues close to my heart (and I really HATE the attittude that a rescue cavalier is a made-to-go family dog that is cheaper than buying a puppy... :mad:).

The ridiculous end of the arguments from each side is:

Buying a dog from a breeder means a shelter dog dies every time.

vs

There's no pet overpopulation programme and it is all just a line from animal rights activists and Peta.

Anyone who spends time in pounds or shelters or does rescue knows that for many breeds and most crossbreeds, there's a serious overpopulation problem, as there is with cats. Most of the problem is down to irresponsible breeding and ignorance (in breeding, training, health, temperament -- from 'proper' breeders to BYBs to millers to the average pet owner to the parent who gets the Christmas puppy to the tough guy wanted a macho dog t the person who thinks dogs train themselves or should innately know how to behave in a home...).

Personally, I am a believer in education, education, education as well as tighter regulation and strong advocacy for spaying and neutering, for cats and dogs.

But to return to the first argument: many people do not want a shelter dog, for all sorts of reasons. Many want a specific breed because they want a certain type of dog and certain traits are going to be pretty stable in well-bred puppies or adults from responsible breeders. Many people do not want a much older dog (sadly -- as IMHO these are some of the most rewarding, personality-full dogs) and many would not be able for the training challenge of many shelter dogs. For someone who really loves a particular breed, nothing matches a well bred, healthy, typey dog from an excellent breeder.

On the other side: Dogs Trust has shown that great education programmes around shelter dogs and mixed breeds can ensure that ALL types of dogs dogs are rightly, attractive and desireable. Better public/govt support of excellent shelter training/rehab programs such as what Dee Ganley (www.deesdogs.com) or the San Francisco SPCA do would show a few simple training and care steps make shelter dogs imminently more homeable and attractive. But in a way the argument is ridiculous -- is anyone seriously arguing the average PUPPY is easier than the typical rescue dog? It is just that the cuteness of a puppy outweighs the hideous nightmare of caring for one, the housetraining misery, etc. I have NEVER had a rescue dog that is even half the challenge and effort of getting a puppy up to a civilised level!! Don't forget MOST shelter dogs are those that people badly mismanaged in the trials and tribulations of puppyhood -- people screw these dogs up by not giving them the basics they need as pups, thereby often consigning them to death by needle before they are even a year old.

The problem for good breeders is that the vast majority of people decide they want a dog and want a bargain impulse purchase so they get their dog NOW. The BYBs and millers make that easy.

On the flip side -- I've worked in general rescue and done my own cavalier rescue for several years now and must say it wuld be extremely rare for any of the rescues that took such dogs in from the pound to ever have a serious behaviour issue. Often this is fear aggression when it does happen and it is why a qualified trainer/behaviourist is invaluable to assess whether a dog is rehomeable. Sadly for shelter dogs, with many more homeable dogs around, few wil put that time in but some rescues do. I have had very few behaviour problems crop up that weren't easily manageable issues (and issues almost always come from PEOPLE, not the dogs themselves, to start with...:rolleyes:).

Often the behaviour issues come because people get the wrong breed profile for their lifestyle and sometimes -- often -- it is because people think they want a dog but remember the happy family dog of their childhood when mom was home all day (not everyone now at work and dog left alone all day) and kids played outside WITH the dog around, not inside with dog left outside. And then I am absolutely convinced a huge number of behaviour problems and aggression issues come thanks to Cesar Milan type TV trainers whose methods go against all the research done on dogs in recent decades which have shown such approaches generally make dogs worse, not better, because of the fear associations/aggresive response of humans/punishment/unpredictability, all in the name of 'dominating' and being 'the alpha' (see this summary of studies and this analysis of a typical Milan training episode with some seriously questionable approaches).

There is good evidence that doing a good obedience class with a dog while it is a puppy massively lower the likelihood that it ends up in a shelter -- and that doing such a class with a rescue dog also almost always ensures it doesn;t get returned to a shelter. Hence some shelters offer vouchers for reduced cost training (I arrange this when I can) and the SFSPCA sends new dogs owners home with a Dunbar training DVD. (and this is why I often encourage or inists on training classes as part of homing a rescue cavalier... :) )
 
I think that if you are going to be involved in any breed of dog, such as Cavaliers, the right thing to do is to become involved in Rescue for that breed in some way... even if you can't foster, you can help with transport or do home visits, etc.

Kat M.-- I work with a Cavalier Rescue group here in Atlanta and we always need volunteers. Are you interested in helping? If so, I am happy to get you the application to become a volunteer!
 
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My own experience and gut now tells me to get a pet from a rescue, you might not know exactly what you are getting but the same seems to apply buying from a breeder. Education and awareness for potential new pet owners is a "must". Before Molly and Dougall, I had never heard of sm or Puppy Farming :huh: In addition to this, we had no idea how hard looking after two puppies would be. Never having had the experience of having children, I felt as though I had given birth to two naughty monkies! :fool: For the first six month of their lives we did not leave them alone. We joined a puppy class, this class really taught and educated us as well as the puppies. Even though I feel I did a large amount of research in to CKSS before we chose, I now think I really didn't know anything at all :eek:
Molly has sm and we do not know what the future holds, if anything happens to her, I will have a big problem with Dougall. I am faced with a decision. do I get another one?, do I foster? what do I do? The only question I am sure about is if I do, it will definately be a Cavalier Rescue.
 
My own experience and gut now tells me to get a pet from a rescue, you might not know exactly what you are getting but the same seems to apply buying from a breeder.

I am sorry you feel that buying from a breeder has the same comfort level as getting a rescue. I get calls daily from people wanting to buy puppies and adopt from rescue and I spend hours weekly educating people about cavaliers.
 
Kat M.-- I work with a Cavalier Rescue group here in Atlanta and we always need volunteers. Are you interested in helping? If so, I am happy to get you the application to become a volunteer!

I would love to help! Do you have work for someone who could make visits about once a month (maybe twice some months)? I live and teach in Valdosta (bordering on Florida), but I have some friends I'm sure I could stay with for a few days each month!
 
I was on another general dog forum the other day and noticed someone's sig.... it really struck a chord with me...

"If you can't rescue, don't breed!"

If everybody with the idea of breeding could stick to this, the world would be a slightly better place.
 
I am sorry you feel that buying from a breeder has the same comfort level as getting a rescue. I get calls daily from people wanting to buy puppies and adopt from rescue and I spend hours weekly educating people about cavaliers.
I had no idea the conditions and the abuse these poor little souls have to endure and actually feel guilty having bought two. I have no idea why the UK Government will not ban this cruelty. That is why now, I feel if I can do anything to help these poor little dogs, I will.
 
My sister got a puppy from the humane society. Other than the fact that it was separated from it's mother much too early (6 weeks) one would have thought with love and training it would have grown into a decent dog. It was a lovely dog with family members and my nephew - even as a toddler was able to take his food away from under his nose. Unfortunately, nobody other than their direct family was able to be in the same room with his food. My son walked into my parents bedroom while we were visiting to read on their bed. He didn't know that Bo's food and water were there (he was fed on schedule - only water was left down). The dog bit him for walking into the room. My sister spent thousands of dollars training this dog and it was the most obedient dog I have met - my younger son entered it in a fun obedience show and he behaved perfectly. He was incredibly unpredictable though and even as an adult he had to be supervised 100% of the time. He ended up having to be PTS after he bit a young child that came up behind him that my sister didn't see in time to be able to control the situation - he was on a leash and they were waiting outside the schoolyard for my nephew to be done school. My sister told me that even though they were all sad - because he was a lovely dog with the immediate family - she felt she had been released from jail. This didn't totally turn them off rescue (like it did me) as several years later with my nephew a teenager begging for a dog they have a smallish senior dog from rescue whose worst crimes are sometimes excessive barking and the fact that he was apparently allowed to eat off the table in his former life.

The resuce cocker we had when my children were toddlers was absolutely the wrong dog for us. He couldn't be trained (at least by a mom pushing a stroller) to walk on leash. He hated everyone except for us. He tried to bite our paperboy who was as much of an animal lover as anyone I've ever met. He barked ALL the time if we were away. Even though we lived in a pretty isolated area our neighbours complained. He was far more dog than we could handle and we did end up sending him back. Honestly the Cocker in our agility class has done nothing to convince me that as a breed they are not all psycho.

When we got our Golden as a pup we went through far more hoops than it took to have kids:rolleyes: Just the other day I found a copy of the yard plan that we sent in along with the application when we got Zeus. In truth - he was too much dog for us too - especially after we moved to town and there was no longer anywhere we could take him to run off leash. He was a lovely, good natured dog though. As his father was an obedience champion and his grandmother a search and rescue dog we probably should have realized he needed a job to be fully happy. Had we known about positive training at the time I have no doubt he would have been a better trained dog. Although he died fairly young (at 11 1/2) he didn't have any of the breed specific problems and I credit that to getting him from a reputable breeder. Zeus' breeder referred me to Mindy's breeder when we were looking for a smaller dog. I had read that Cavalier's were like Golden's in a smaller boy. Mindy is an absolute treasure but not at all like Zeus personality wise - maybe because she is a girl but she is a pleaser. Max on the other hand could be the reincarnation:D. Luckily for all of us I got on the training early on and he is a really well behaved boy who is too short to table surg:D
 
This is a very interesting read. For all of you who advocate "no kill" and "rescue, don't buy" you MUST, MUST, MUST volunteer in your local animal shelter to see what really goes on behind the scenes, and then volunteer as a foster with a Cavalier Club. You will see dogs you never thought possible; some extremely sweet, and some on the opposite side of the spectrum.

My foster now has been with us 3 months- his age is unknown. He came from an animal control facility. He was taken from his owners for negligence. As far as I can tell, not brushing your dog & not taking him to an eye specialist is not negligence. He was a good weight and friendly as can be. However, he has genetic health problems. So, now this dog has been taken from his home and may possibly never be adopted due to his age and health issues. Where do you draw the line?

A lot of people feel that their dogs are their "fur kids", but there are just as many others that consider them "property", a "hunting assistant", a "guard" and all sorts of other things. Are you seriously saying you think you can change these people's minds? Seriously? It breaks my heart to see dogs in an outdoor 3x5 kennel their entire life. It does! But we can't haul all these people to jail- or take their dog. Then, the dog would be in a kennel in a shelter, most likely unsocialized, fearful, and therefore unadoptable. If we took away all these animals, then we would really have a shelter overpopulation problem. And, believe me, not every animal should be adopted out.
 
Helping animals stay in their homes, as long as there is no significant abuse or neglect, should be the goal. Our local humane society has a pet food pantry for low-income families, as well as a low-cost Vet clinic where families can have their animals neutered and receive low-cost vaccines. There are groups out there who donate dog houses to those people who choose to leave their dog outside. These are fantastic programs and these programs need to be better advertised AND FUNDED. Donate to your local shelter. Foster for them, or your local Cavalier Club.

The shelters can't be too picky about who they adopt an animal to; they don't have the staff or the funds. The best they can do is vaccinate & neuter every animal that comes through. In that way, they can reduce the # of animals "on the street" and hope for the best.

Breed Clubs & private shelters tend to be more selective in who they adopt animals to, by charging higher adoption fees and having a list of requirements that adopters must meet. The only reason they can do this, is they have a network of foster homes so they know the dogs/cats are being well cared for and are willing to keep the animal until a proper home is found. But, the # of foster homes is ridiculously low. In our organization, there are only a handful of foster homes, mine included, so I end up having an extra dog for probably half the year (and will have two extra dogs for the holidays most likely). If there were MORE fosters, each family would only have to take in a couple dogs a year instead of a dozen.

So for all of you complaining, I urge you to FOSTER, FOSTER, FOSTER. VOLUNTEER your time and/or DONATE your money.

Off my podium now!
 
Sorry, back on my podium.

For those of you with a bad rescue experience, there is someone with a good rescue experience. I have seen both. But purebred puppies are the same way; we had an adorable Blenheim through rescue a few months ago. She was 8 YO and came from Petland. She was purchased @ 4 months old- so for the first 16 weeks, she was in a crate with very little human contact, and most likely taken from her mother @ 6 weeks old. She cost her original owner $900 back then, ON SALE, because she was "old" for a pup. She was the cutest, sweetest little thing to those she bonded with. Except when she met a stranger, then she became a nasty barking lunatic. Why? Because even though she was expensive, and a purebred dog, she was completely untrusting and unsocialized as a pup.

Rescuing an animal is not for everyone. But in most cases, the dogs coming from decent shelters HAVE been behavior-tested, neutered & vaccinated. And keep in mind, "no kill" shelters are not any better than "kill" shelters, in that they only accept the "primo" animals, and turn away the un-adoptables to be sent off to a kill shelter.
 
My experiences with shelter dogs have all been very positive. I have had three mixed breed puppies from shelters. I got a 1 year old mixed breed dog for my mother from our local pound. My cavalier rescues were from a shelter also. These dogs all were and are great dogs. The puppies had no issues, except those problems associated with being puppies. The 1 year old turned out to be deaf and has a few issues that are not serious. He has this curious habit of running in circles. He is a wonderful companion for my elderly mother and she loves him dearly.

My two Cavalier rescues were removed from a hoarder's home. They are wonderful dogs with the sweetest temperments. They are not without their own issues. I have had these two rescues for about 2 1/2 years and we are still picking up poops in the living room from time to time. Harley will mark on occasion. We can't leave any food on the dining room table or it becomes fair game for either of the two. Would I ever give these dogs up.....NEVER! They are true joy in our lives! I don't think a week goes by when one of my family members doesn't comment on how happy we are to have Harley and Sapphire as part of our family.

I think it is all in the attitude. I understand where these dogs have come from. When you get an adult from a shelter, it is there for a reason. Most of the time, it is not the dog's fault. Most of the time, it is the previous owner who couldn't or wouldn't take the time to properly train and socialize the dog. It could have been that the previous owner expected perfection in a dog, a dog that would never bark, never dig, never counter surf, never run off with underwear....I am not perfect....how can I expect my dog to be.

Rescuing an animal is not for everyone. But in most cases, the dogs coming from decent shelters HAVE been behavior-tested, neutered & vaccinated. And keep in mind, "no kill" shelters are not any better than "kill" shelters, in that they only accept the "primo" animals, and turn away the un-adoptables to be sent off to a kill shelter.

I agree!

J.
 
I would love to help! Do you have work for someone who could make visits about once a month (maybe twice some months)? I live and teach in Valdosta (bordering on Florida), but I have some friends I'm sure I could stay with for a few days each month!

If you pm me your email address, I will send you an application to volunteer with us. There may be times when we need help in your area... you just never know. Thanks!
 
Would just like to say that I recently got my new girl Armani the Chinese Crested from The Little Dog Rescue and could not be happier with her. She is not a youngster, being 9, but then neither am I. I know she is not a cavalier which I would have loved to have had but just could not face the chance of having another with Chaos's problems. Also someone else on here said they had tried to adopt from Many Tears and were turned down because their cavalier had SM, which I think is a very strange policy but so did not bother to apply. The Little Dog Rescue does not have kennels but all the dogs are fostered around the country and assessed for health and behaviour problems before being rehomed. I can't praise the people who do this work enough.
I feel that if anyone loves dogs then they can usually love one whatever the breed and Armani is a very loving little girl who sleeps under the duvet with me, is always giving me kisses and is very clever. Have had a few issues with house training but that is getting better now and it has only been a couple of weeks.
 
Helping animals stay in their homes, as long as there is no significant abuse or neglect, should be the goal. Our local humane society has a pet food pantry for low-income families, as well as a low-cost Vet clinic where families can have their animals neutered and receive low-cost vaccines. There are groups out there who donate dog houses to those people who choose to leave their dog outside. These are fantastic programs and these programs need to be better advertised AND FUNDED. Donate to your local shelter. Foster for them, or your local Cavalier Club.

The shelters can't be too picky about who they adopt an animal to; they don't have the staff or the funds. The best they can do is vaccinate & neuter every animal that comes through. In that way, they can reduce the # of animals "on the street" and hope for the best.

Breed Clubs & private shelters tend to be more selective in who they adopt animals to, by charging higher adoption fees and having a list of requirements that adopters must meet. The only reason they can do this, is they have a network of foster homes so they know the dogs/cats are being well cared for and are willing to keep the animal until a proper home is found. But, the # of foster homes is ridiculously low. In our organization, there are only a handful of foster homes, mine included, so I end up having an extra dog for probably half the year (and will have two extra dogs for the holidays most likely). If there were MORE fosters, each family would only have to take in a couple dogs a year instead of a dozen.

So for all of you complaining, I urge you to FOSTER, FOSTER, FOSTER. VOLUNTEER your time and/or DONATE your money.

Off my podium now!

Trisha,
You gave a lot of good information and hopefully gave some people something to think about.
Fostering is one of the most rewarding endeavors you can do-- but it can burn you out too. So I agree, if everyone who cares about this breed, can open their hearts and homes to just one foster and TRY it, they might find out that it is an amazing way to GIVE back to this wonderful breed.
My younger daughter just fostered for the first time (she just started her career, just got married, bought a house and car all in the last 7 months). I try to give 'easy' dogs to first timers and she got 2 at once. It took us 6/7 weeks to find a good home for both of them (homing 2 at once is difficult). She said she'd do it again. She is a medical laboratory scientist- busy woman.
There is a human surgeon in Chicago that tried it and now is a regular volunteer. There is our Ohio representative for CKCSCR-- Dr. Lynette Cole- veterinarian (PSOM) who has found fostering is very rewarding, so much so that she handles Ohio rescue.
So please, just try it once-- if you hate it-- you'll never have to do it again. I've not had many people say never again.

Ok, I am done begging. Sandy
 
I would love to foster and someday when I am home all day(and my young dogs are a bit older) I will. I can understand our local shelter's policy of only placing fosters in homes with someone home all day as that is also their policy for adoption and right now I don't qualify. Luckily I have never seen a Cavalier in rescue anywhere close to me and I hope that continues. Our local vets office called me when a Ruby boy that was running loose without a tag was brought in (we don't have a pound or a shelter in town) thinking I might know where he belonged. I didn't but he was reunited with his family the next day.

As far as loving any dog I think that's true but even when adopting from a shelter people have to be careful to get a dog that will suit their lifestyle. I adore the bulldog in Rylie's puppy class but there is no way I could handle the exercise and training requirements of such a large dog. He is by far the best trained dog in our class but I know his owner works really hard at it and still has issues away from class - mostly because he's a puppy but at 80 lbs. people don't say "oh he's so cute" when he jumps up on them - (although I'm working on that with Rylie he gets the cute pass from most people if he makes a mistake). Whether adopting or buying a pet from a breeder I think people have to know as much as they can about the potential pitfalls - health/behaviour/exercise requirements.
 
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