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Sudden Heart Failure

S

Sally7216

New member
Hi

Our 9 year old with a Grade 2 heart murmur, not on medication was fine up until 9pm Saturday evening then she suddenly couldn't get up and looked dazed with tongue slightly out. I checked her gums which were pale and cold, as were her feet. It had been 32c during the day but she along with our others had stayed in except for toileting and our house remained cool.
I contacted our vet out of hours service. Last year when I took another of our Cavs to them at weekend we were asked to go straight down. This time I had to wait whilst they spoke to duty vet and they called me back and said go to out of hours which is in next town and its a 20 minute drive at least.
She passed away enroute.
So oxygen was futile when I arrived.

Has anyone else had a Cav that suddenly went with a heart attack like this?

We are beyond devastated.
Millie was our only Cav from a puppy. The rest of our dogs are all ex breeding rescues.
 

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Oh gosh I am so sorry. This must have been terribly distressing and shocking for you.

If it is any small comfort, this doesn't sound like a case where the outcome would likely have been different even if you'd been able to reach a vet and get access to oxygen right away. This kind of fast collapse usually indicates sudden full failure, not something than can be helped. And yes, sudden collapse can happen with a heart condition. In some dogs, the valves slowly deteriorate and the dog can be managed on medications for some time (even a very long time, depending on the case) as the heart itself starts to compensate, and meds create a stronger, more effective beat. In others, the valve can just blow out. I've had both situations happen, and combinations of them where a dog is managed on meds for a while but then the heart eventually goes suddenly.

Had a cardiologist managed Millie or a vet? Often vets get grades wrong. Also her grade might have been declining in recent weeks or months since her last auscultation. Also, the grade sometimes isn't actually as relevant as other factors that a cardiologist is far better trained to assess, even just by auscultation (listening) as opposed to doing an ECG. A cardiologist will assess the stage of disease as opposed to just a murmur grade. See https://www.cavaliermatters.org/uni...-index/mvd-heart-disease/mvd-heart-disease-2/ for info. Cavalierhealth.org also has exhaustive information on MVD and other cavalier health conditions. It can be hard to assess prognosis and future progression for grade 1 or 2 murmurs especially if there hadn't been an ECG or other assessments by a cardiologist, so it's possible the grade was more advanced or that there were other factors that placed Millie at higher risk. But the general advice is that a dog once diagnosed with MVD (heart disease) have their vet recheck the murmur every 6-12 months, so it's not as if you'd have needed to be checking this constantly and Millie could well have declined within a quite normal framework of offering good care. Or, she might have been a mild case but then there was a catastrophic failure of the valve.

Given your description, I'd guess she had a sudden full failure. Or: it's always possible the cause was not heart related at all, but something else, such as a sudden stroke or other sudden and severe organ failure with internal bleeding, which would cause the symptoms you describe too (I've had this happen with two cavaliers in the past and it can happen very fast and also causes pale, cold gums and collapse). Sometimes we'll assume one known condition is the cause, but it can be another we didn't know about which actually causes a death.

I'm so sorry you had this devastating outcome. I know from experience how especially upsetting this experience is, and the feelings of helplessness. But truly you did your best, you acted quickly, and if this had been a collapse that could have been managed by vets, a 20 minute delay would unlikely have mattered.
 
Karlin said:
Oh gosh I am so sorry. This must have been terribly distressing and shocking for you.

If it is any small comfort, this doesn't sound like a case where the outcome would likely have been different even if you'd been able to reach a vet and get access to oxygen right away. This kind of fast collapse usually indicates sudden full failure, not something than can be helped. And yes, sudden collapse can happen with a heart condition. In some dogs, the valves slowly deteriorate and the dog can be managed on medications for some time (even a very long time, depending on the case) as the heart itself starts to compensate, and meds create a stronger, more effective beat. In others, the valve can just blow out. I've had both situations happen, and combinations of them where a dog is managed on meds for a while but then the heart eventually goes suddenly.

Had a cardiologist managed Millie or a vet? Often vets get grades wrong. Also her grade might have been declining in recent weeks or months since her last auscultation. Also, the grade sometimes isn't actually as relevant as other factors that a cardiologist is far better trained to assess, even just by auscultation (listening) as opposed to doing an ECG. A cardiologist will assess the stage of disease as opposed to just a murmur grade. See https://www.cavaliermatters.org/uni...-index/mvd-heart-disease/mvd-heart-disease-2/ for info. Cavalierhealth.org also has exhaustive information on MVD and other cavalier health conditions. It can be hard to assess prognosis and future progression for grade 1 or 2 murmurs especially if there hadn't been an ECG or other assessments by a cardiologist, so it's possible the grade was more advanced or that there were other factors that placed Millie at higher risk. But the general advice is that a dog once diagnosed with MVD (heart disease) have their vet recheck the murmur every 6-12 months, so it's not as if you'd have needed to be checking this constantly and Millie could well have declined within a quite normal framework of offering good care. Or, she might have been a mild case but then there was a catastrophic failure of the valve.

Given your description, I'd guess she had a sudden full failure. Or: it's always possible the cause was not heart related at all, but something else, such as a sudden stroke or other sudden and severe organ failure with internal bleeding, which would cause the symptoms you describe too (I've had this happen with two cavaliers in the past and it can happen very fast and also causes pale, cold gums and collapse). Sometimes we'll assume one known condition is the cause, but it can be another we didn't know about which actually causes a death.

I'm so sorry you had this devastating outcome. I know from experience how especially upsetting this experience is, and the feelings of helplessness. But truly you did your best, you acted quickly, and if this had been a collapse that could have been managed by vets, a 20 minute delay would unlikely have mattered.
Click to expand...
Thankyou for your reply. I really appreciate it. I forgot to mention probably coincidence but I know Millie's Mum died unexpectedly same way at the same age. She was found half way through a dog flap gone so the breeder told me
 
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Hmmm yes, it could be the way MVD sometimes presents in this line. It's sad that it appears so frequently in cavaliers.
 
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