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Heart murmur and dental -help!

M

MillieCaramels

Member
Hi, I haven’t posted in a long time but I really need advice.
My eight year old Tri George was at the vets tonight. His teeth are really bad, I’ve been trying toothpaste and brushing but feared they were past that.
The vet has said he needs a dental, but has also diagnosed him with a Grade 3, possibly 4 heart murmur.
He has recommended the dental and as he’ll be under anyway, a chest x-ray as well to see how enlarged the heart is. He’s also advised me to look up the EPIC research.
Aside from the obvious concerns about anaesthetic and George’s age, he also had major spinal surgery four years ago when he lost the use of his back legs (degenerate disc disease). The vet has said that they would take the utmost care and not flip him over when under but move him gently (as they do on hospital shows and they have a few people rolling a patient).
What do I do? If he doesn’t have a dental his teeth will fall out and the bacteria affects the heart. What will they do about the murmur and of course he could not come round. I just want George to have the happiest life he can, he deserves it so much after having to learn to walk again and everything he went through.
What would you do in this situation? Any thoughts gratefully recieved.
 
Madison is 15 and has a grade 3/4 murmur and had a teeth cleaning about 6 months ago. She handled the anesthesia beautifully. Although she is deaf, sleeps most of the day and has some type of neurologic condition (head bobbing and rear-end collapsing) she still has her moments when she seems like a young dog - she still runs around the yard with Oz our 11 year old, jumps unassisted onto furniture, and goes up and down stairs with ease! They gave her the lightest anesthestic possible and monitored for discomfort, as well as the murmur. If you trust your vet, I would go ahead with the dental if George is otherwise in good health, if all his pre-dental labs come back fine. Good luck!
 
Thank you for your reply. It’s such a horrible decision to make, the vet said that he has had a dog with spinal problems come round and not be able to walk as they hadn’t realised and hadn’t taken care moving him. However it is on George’s record to handle carefully. It’s very difficult as he seems fine in himself. I knew his teeth weren’t great but he seems absolutely fine otherwise, I never would have suspected he had a heart murmur, although I know most Cavaliers do. The diagnosis of a heart murmur was through listening to his chest, he needs to do a chest x-ray to tell how enlarged the heart is, but I don’t know what they would do after that, is it medication?
I’ve only just moved here so the vets are new to me. They seem good.
 
My blenheim also had degenerative disc disease - first surgery was very successful, second surgery at age 11 left him pain-free but unable to use his hind legs. In the house he scooted around wherever he needed to go by pulling with his front legs. Outside he used a wheel cart for walks, when playing in the yard with my other dogs, was able to void and defecate without problems and was even able to use it in the snow! He used it for 3+ years until he just became too weak in his front legs and couldn't move any more. He lived to be 14+ years old. He did not have a heart murmur though. Madison, my ruby, just started on Vetmedin for her murmur because her heart was enlarged even further on her latest echo. Since she is 15+ years already, I'm hoping she doesn't progress too much further into CHF.
 
Was any dental rejected because of fear of MVD & heart issues & a bad cardio read. Annie needs extractions + cleaning. She is 12, & has MVD. She is getting a cardio check before surgery. I feel bad because her vet kept saying she needs her teeth cleaned. It’s been pure neglect on my part because I felt I might lose her too young. So can you shed some light on a positive outcome that you have had with your dog?
 
First off, please don't feel it is entirely your fault. It is very difficult to maintain cavalier teeth to a level where they never need dentals. Cavaliers, at least some, maybe most, seem to have a genetic predisposition to poor dental health. I had two half brothers fed exactly the same things and one had fairly good teeth and one required dentals before age 5. I have a similar situation now -- two dogs more distantly related but one has had just one dental and a couple of extractions at age 8, while a younger dog had to have over a dozen extractions at only about age 4!!! So it's good to have a dental plan and do our best to manage teeth well. But some dogs do have poor teeth and easily get gum disease. Also, I'd think pretty much every 12 year old dog will have some issues. But at the same time, it's true that dogs with gum disease and bad teeth will have discomfort and pain just like humans would -- so it's important to do dentals when needed if possible and try to have a good dental health regime at home. :)

Dentals are indeed rejected sometimes due to heart issues. In your shoes, I'd actually want to talk to the cardiologist directly about the potential risks and get a view if at this time it might be better not to do one or in the balance, it should be done.

One frustration I've always had especially in a social media era is the mostly unwonted worry about giving dogs a sedative or GA for needed procedures. There's so much disinformation out there and forums where people post that GAs should always be avoided. Unnecessary GAs or sedation, yes, but a good talk through details with a vet can be reassuring and an owner can always opt for a second or specialist opinion too. :)

Let us know the cardio advice, and what you decide to do, and best of luck.
 
Karlin, Thanks so much for your reply & a bit of assurance with some positive information. We have gone to the best Vet Dental Specialist & will also have a Vet anesthesiologist present during the procedure. Annie will have her EKG & cardio check a few days prior to the surgery this Saturday. Thank you for the support. I will keep you updated.
 
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