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Cavalier Breed Notes

EddyAnne said:
there appears to be quite a few Cavalier puppies for sale on the Kennel Club’s website .
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One of the people who appears twice on the KC website list is a friend of mine, who breeds less than one litter a year but happens to have had two litters close together this year. She doesn't belong to the CKCS Club (mainly because she isn't interested in showing - she does obedience with her Cavaliers and aims to produce healthy, happy pets, though the occasional one does go to small breeder show homes) so can't advertise on their Puppy Register. She tells me she had several contacts via the KC site and after stringent enquiries and home checks, some of them were allowed to buy her puppies. I was actually quite impressed by the KC site - there is quite a lot of information about each breed, including a list of the health checks that should be done by breeders (the Cavalier advice includes SM as a voluntary check). My friend's puppies have MRI scanned parents and grandparents, all As.

Kate, Oliver and Aled
 
Kate that does not surprise me and I think that there may be more but one has to look around to find them.

By the way, here is a photo of our Quincy with his ball collection and he is NOT a recognised breed by any Kennel Club in the world as he is an Australian Labradoodle. When we were seeking a pup his breeder quite willingly showed us a pile of health certificates going back generations on both sides, and yes we have even done health testing including OptiGen DNA health testing which is available for our Quincy.

Quincy.jpg

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EddyAnne ,

The only reason I contact the Experts is to find out information ,so that I am sure of my facts in what I am saying.

I never pass on information that I have not had confirmed.

You mention about contacting Simon Swift, I just don't see the reason for doing this. .The link for the UK Cavalier Club Puppy Register Form is on the Club Web Site .

www.thecavalierclub.co.uk

I can't understand your request about Heart Testing Database, I would think that will be confidential Information between Simon Swift and the Cavalier Club.

I really am not interested in any-body else's opinion about the UK Cavalier Puppy Register, just my own , for which I am so grateful to our CKCS Club for doing this.
 
. There's no reason at all that heart info should be confidential -- why should results be kept hidden? Many US and Canadian breeders put their heart results on the open OFA database as well as hip scores patellas, elbows and thyroid results. The heart certs must be from a board-certified cardiologist. This is actually the norm for many, many breeders and is extremely useful information for both other breeders and for puppy buyers -- it makes it far easier to research heart health over many generations. There's also now the CHIC database for cavaliers which is administered by OFA: http://ackcsccharitabletrust.org/chic.htm

Unfortunately the UK does not have a similar national database setup.
 
I sure know Karlin ,that it would be great if the Heart Information was made public, BUT.............,you will likely not know about the Witch Hunting that went on here when 4 Cavaliers were named by Letters who could have been involved with the SM Problem. There were Cavaliers being named and Shamed by those Witch Hunters who had nothing to do with the Problem. It was ever Thus .

I have been involved for many years collecting Pedigrees of Cavaliers suffering from Heart Trouble, even going back to the 50's and found out about Cavaliers who were being used at Stud and were suffering from Heart Trouble, but passed on their names to the Experts.

The Cavalier Club have now made a great start by not putting on their Puppy Register Puppies whose Parents have not been Heart or Eye Tested,hopefully SM will follow. If only the Kennel Club would do the same on their Puppy List for Cavaliers. maybe we should now be having a go at the Kennel Club to be doing the same. Does any-body know who to contact about this. ?

The KC seem to be adament about registering Puppies from Non-Health Tested Parents, but maybe the two forth -coming Recommendations from Professor Bateson and APGAW's Committees,will alter their stance about this.

I have some-times wondered if some Cavalier Breeders show each other the Health Certificates of their Cavaliers before a mating takes place, or is it just a Case of a Nod and a Wink!!!
 
Where I am the Government new Codes Of Practice for Hereditary Diseases it mentions that breeders should provide health certificates to other breeders when breeding, plus breeders should provide health certificates to everyone who buys their puppies. It does NOT matter what dogs are being bred and sold, and even applies to dogs at puppy farms and pet shops. If breeders do NOT do this they could be in trouble for not complying to the Government Codes Of Practice. More Seminars may have to be arranged so that a representative from the animal welfare department can explain these new codes of practice to dog breeders including Cavalier breeders. I wonder if something like this might happen later on over your way.
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I think many breeders can feel too intimidated to ask for health certs when told the dog has them. That's why I think a mandatory scheme would make a huge difference to breed health. That doesn't mean breeders couldn't make their own mating choices, but that a set of test results would be there as a basis on which to make choices (and on which pet buyers might also make choices of breeders).
 
Hi

For info it was only 2 months ago when I got my little Lily and to be honest the list on the Kc site was not a great help ,accredited breeders included, I phoned them all at the time i was searching and not one could supply all the certs I required ,mvd/eyes/hips/mri scanned parents etc even if they had pups ,one accredited breeder not too far from me even stated sm didnt exist .It was really word of mouth from one breeder (on mc list ) who did health test that put me in contact with Lilys breeder who is really a show person ,and apart from her I found two others (again from margarets advice ) who health tested who had cavs in pup but I needed to have waited for the outcome which I was prepared to do .The kc are changing but a lot of breeders who sell through them still have a long way to go till they realise that people like me who neither breed nor show still want health tested cavaliers ,and not all the pet owning public are still ignorant of these facts thanks to people like mc ,karlin ,barbara ,bet etc who are helping greatly to educate the pet owning public by sharing their knowledge with us on places like karlins website for example.
 
Karlin said:
I think many breeders can feel too intimidated to ask for health certs when told the dog has them.
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The breeder has to provide health certificates to all puppy buyers, that includes certificates from the sire side as well so the bitches owner will have to ask and be given so that they can provide. If these are not provided to the puppy buyers and considering how many pups in a litter it only takes one puppy buyer to complain to the authorities where this may lead to an investigation to find out why the certificates were not provided.

Note this which is written in the codes of practice document.
"The information contained in this publication is a Code of Practice prescribed under the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals (General) Regulation 2006 (the Regulation). People involved in the business of breeding dogs and cats are reminded that compliance with the standards specified in this Code is a requirement under that Regulation."
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Brian M said:
Hi

For info it was only 2 months ago when I got my little Lily and to be honest the list on the Kc site was not a great help ,accredited breeders included, I phoned them all at the time i was searching and not one could supply all the certs I required ,mvd/eyes/hips/mri scanned parents etc even if they had pups ,one accredited breeder not too far from me even stated sm didnt exist .It was really word of mouth from one breeder (on mc list ) who did health test that put me in contact with Lilys breeder who is really a show person ,and apart from her I found two others (again from margarets advice ) who health tested who had cavs in pup but I needed to have waited for the outcome which I was prepared to do .The kc are changing but a lot of breeders who sell through them still have a long way to go till they realise that people like me who neither breed nor show still want health tested cavaliers ,and not all the pet owning public are still ignorant of these facts thanks to people like mc ,karlin ,barbara ,bet etc who are helping greatly to educate the pet owning public by sharing their knowledge with us on places like karlins website for example.
Click to expand...

For every buyer that is like you Brian (knows what he wants - testing, etc..) there are dozens out there that want a Puppy NOW and want it as cheap as they can get them.
I had one person call me-- I had no pups and she asked what I would charge if I did. She called me back and told me she had her choice of sex and color for less than half of what I would charge. She bought from a broker.
 
I was kinda in shock:lpy:

I wasn't expecting someone to lecture me on cavalier availability and cheap vs. fully health tested and, well, not cheap. She told me "anyone who pays more than 800.00 (us dollars) for a dog is stupid''. :crash:
 
WoodHaven said:
She bought from a broker.
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Where I am the breeder would still have to provide hereditary disease health testing certificates even to new owners such as brokers and pet shops. Puppy buyers can ask for those certificates and if not provided they might complain where this may lead to an investigation by authoraties who deal with Government Codes of Practice and Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.
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EddyAnne said:
Where I am the breeder would still have to provide hereditary disease health testing certificates even to new owners such as brokers and pet shops. Puppy buyers can ask for those certificates and if not provided they might complain where this may lead to an investigation by authoraties who deal with Government Codes of Practice and Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.
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Click to expand...

Not here-- Just a health cert from a vet usually saying the dog appears healthy enough for sale (up to date on shots and dewormings etc) and where the dog was born.

Who decides what health tests are mandated?? Do you have the same amount of testing for human reproduction?? Just curious.

And until we have DNA testing for important diseases-- all health tests are, are reflections in phenotype.

http://webspace.webring.com/people/xq/qulil/purebred.html
 
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Sandy this new thing came in very recently and in time we will find out exactly what it all means even in relation to Cavaliers.

NSW Government
"Animal Welfare Code of Practice Breeding Dogs And Cats"

10.1.2.2 Where a heritable disease is recognised in a breed and where there is screening procedures or a test for that disease the person in charge in the case of a stud cat or dog or bitch or queen should:
• have a current official evaluation or test result for the dog or cat for such hereditary disease;
• provide the official evaluation or test result to the owners where the dog or cat is to be mated to an animal not owned by the breeding facility;
• provide the official evaluation or test result of both the sire and the dam to the new owners of any puppy of kitten;
• endeavour to ensure that the genetic make-up of both sire and dam will not result in an increase in the frequency or severity of known inherited disorders.
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So they expect breeders to be gods?? Who knows if breeding two animals will cause an increase.. I bred according to SM protocols-- and got 100% of a litter to have SM. Two F's-- a terrible increase while using the darn protocol. My crystal ball is obviously broken.
 
Brian M said:
Hi sandy

I presume you said the right words to her.
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I actually had a woman come up to me at a recent fun dog show- she took one look at Ruby and said to me (no hello) "isnt your dog stunning, could I breed him with my B&T bitch as I need a ruby!"
I stood there lost for words I told her that she is a bitch and I dont think you'd want her anyway as she has SM.
The reply I got.... "whats that then?"

Well I didnt know what to say except that if she didnt know what syringomyelia is then she shouldnt be breeding at all.

Just one example of the ignorence of some people!!!

karen
 
That happens a lot. People buy a cavalier, find them wonderful and think, hey, I can make back some of the $$ spent on fluffy by having a litter.
The last person who asked me had a male who she wanted me to breed to my female. I had to explain to her that she should champion her boy, do heart, eyes, hips and if possible an MRI-- she looked at me like I was crazy. The boy wasn't registered at all.
 
WoodHaven said:
So they expect breeders to be gods?? Who knows if breeding two animals will cause an increase.. I bred according to SM protocols-- and got 100% of a litter to have SM. Two F's-- a terrible increase while using the darn protocol. My crystal ball is obviously broken.
Click to expand...
That could possibly happen with hereditary diseases where DNA testing is NOT available, yes even in regards to MVD and Hip Dysplasia, but I think it tends to be an exception rather than what generally applies.

I think a breeder's defence in case of an investigation or a court case eventuated is to have the appropriate specialist health testing certificates and to have bred according to specialist recommended breeding protocols.
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EddyAnne said:
That could possibly happen with hereditary diseases where DNA testing is NOT available, yes even in regards to MVD and Hip Dysplasia, but I think it tends to be an exception rather than what generally applies.

I think a breeder's defence in case of an investigation or a court case eventuated is to have the appropriate specialist health testing certificates and to have bred according to specialist recommended breeding protocols.
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Click to expand...

You are going to be breeding by government protocols-- great. We have seen here how much the legislature DOESN'T know about breeding animals in the US. They have turned to the Animal Rights Fanatics to get their views.
AND We all know how much government 'HELPS' a bad situation. Just look at America now. yikes.
 
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