Can the cavalier breed be saved?

[Bet]

I know you must be angry that your girl is suffering with SM, but it would be wrong to assume that a particular dog or dogs in her pedigree were contributors of the gene(s) that cause the condition, unless it can be proved that those dogs have produced offspring with the condition.
There are lots of dogs in any pedigree - though in cavaliers - we have been told they all goback to a small number of dogs. I think it's fair to say this would be the case with any pedigree dog, as breeders of a new breed have to start somewhere.
If you assume that it is a particular dog or dogs and you are wrong, then giving a breeder a piece of your mind for something they didn't do could be construde as a bit unfair. (just because a breeder does - or does not follow guidelines, doesn't garantee healthy or unhealthy pups - reasearchers have set the age to breed as a guideline to help, so that if there are early signs of the condition, those dogs should not be bred from)
How old were the UK champions when they produced the offspring that are also in your girls pedigree? if they were over 2.5yrs old at that time - then at that point no guidelines were contravened as far as I can see.

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?

Davecav,

What I have mentioned is that UK CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE Member has used an Under Age Cavalier in the Breeding Program.

This has been seen in the Kennel Club's Cavaliers Breed Supplement, if this is Happening what use are the CKCS CLUB'S Breeding Guideline Recommendations when a Committee Member is doing this.

This surely is a Poor Example of the CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE letting this be taking place.

Bet

 

[anniemac]

I agree I went a little too far. They can't be responsible for something way back when. I actually want to support the breeders because I think the future lies in not only their hands but pet owners to be educated and ask the right questions to support them. I am in no way blaming this on that one breeder because really it should have been her father and mother that was scanned in the first place. You can't go back to one line and I understand that. They had no idea about those things back then but I am curious if they do now. However I never even blamed Ella's breeder because even though she said Ella was the first she heard of this and she will start scanning I was pleased because I thought she was concerned. I read "For the Love of Ollie" and the note from the breeder and it put things to light about just how aweful breeders can feel if one of the puppies ends up getting SM. I have also talked to breeder friends with the same concern.

I don't ever want to blame breeders especially for something so long ago but if breeders know that there is evidence of what can happen if both are not scanned, if one should be mated with an A or whatever and ignores the information, then it upsets me. Mainly because we are the ones that are either the 50% that are lucky or the other. Listen, If in the US the breeders that do things were recognized and rewarded or in the UK, that would be awesome.

It makes me even more upset when I pull up a search for CKCS puppies in my state and see tons of listings and people wind up wanting to ignore asking if they health test and just want a cheaper puppy and wind up buying from a BYB.

Even if it has nothing to do with her, I am curious in the US, UK, or any other country who is scanning etc. In the US, I can't even see the protocol even listed. I would love to be able to help the clubs, breeders, pet owners, share information to help the breed and in a positive light, but what is the problem with asking if they are scanning now.

I guess I should not have said I would give him a piece of my mind because I wouldn't. Sometimes we can get upset and say things out of frustration.

 

[Bet]

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?

Davecav,

What I have mentioned is that UK CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE Member has used an Under Age Cavalier in the Breeding Program.

This has been seen in the Kennel Club's Cavaliers Breed Supplement, if this is Happening what use are the CKCS CLUB'S Breeding Guideline Recommendations when a Committee Member is doing this.

This surely is a Poor Example of the CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE letting this be taking place.

Bet

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?


Just having the Article which is the Head-lines in this Week's DOG WORLD , this is about the First Time I have been given Hope for the Future of our Beloved Cavalier Breed.

If I could give some of the Details from a Meeting that was held about a week ago between the DOG ADVISORY COUNCIL and APGAW,the PARLIAMENTARY GROUP.

Professor S.Crispin, Chairman of the Dog Advisory Council said that the Key Issues include Identifying and Tackling HEALTH ISSUES.

Developing a Breeder Assurance Scheme

Defining Good Breeding

Developing Guidance on how to BUY a DOG

Reviewiningall Canine Legislation

Professor Crispin also said that the Council intended to Start Work Immediately on these Matters,that the Members of the Council would be Consulting relevant Orginizations ,examining Available Data and Information and drawing on Views generally.

Many other Folk were at this Meeting including the BVA President,Harvey Locke ,he said that it should be Prioritised to the Dog Buying Public ,that when Buying a Dog ,the Health and Temperment comes before the Dog's Appearance .

That the BVA is now pushing for Puppy Contracts.

One very Important thing that was mentioned by Professor Crispin was that Two of the Sources the Data will be collected from will be ,the DATA from Insurance Companies and the BVA/KC CANINE HEALTH SCHEMES,this Data will be Analysed to Produce a List of the Top Welfare Issues and Breed Priorities ,and the Council will Devise an Effective System for Addressing HEALTH PROBLEMS once they are Identified .

It was also agreed that the Conditions which Cause the Worst Welfare Problems should be Found( May I Mention MVD and SM in our Cavalier Breed) and Provide Routes and Tools for Resolving them.

The Initial Phase will be to Develope CLEAR CRITERIA for Selecting the Conditions which Cause the Most Serious Welfare Problems.

The APGAW's Chairman ,Neil Parish, MP,would be taking the Key messages to the Government.

Finally my Personal Comment on this Momentous Action to be taken on Behalf of Our Dogs,

WOULD THIS EVER HAVE HAPPENED BUT FOR THE PEDIGREE DOGS EXPOSED TV PROGRAM and JEMIMA HARRISON.

We who Love our 4 Legged Friends and Wish them to have the Chance of Healthier ,Longer Lives have so much to Thank Her For,

Also can I include ,KARLIN, MARGARET and CAROL on behalf of we who Love our Cherished Cavaliers for making this Great Event Happen.

THANK YOU ALL.

Bet

 

[Bet]

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?


Just having the Article which is the Head-lines in this Week's DOG WORLD , this is about the First Time I have been given Hope for the Future of our Beloved Cavalier Breed.

If I could give some of the Details from a Meeting that was held about a week ago between the DOG ADVISORY COUNCIL and APGAW,the PARLIAMENTARY GROUP.

Professor S.Crispin, Chairman of the Dog Advisory Council said that the Key Issues include Identifying and Tackling HEALTH ISSUES.

Developing a Breeder Assurance Scheme

Defining Good Breeding

Developing Guidance on how to BUY a DOG

Reviewiningall Canine Legislation

Professor Crispin also said that the Council intended to Start Work Immediately on these Matters,that the Members of the Council would be Consulting relevant Orginizations ,examining Available Data and Information and drawing on Views generally.

Many other Folk were at this Meeting including the BVA President,Harvey Locke ,he said that it should be Prioritised to the Dog Buying Public ,that when Buying a Dog ,the Health and Temperment comes before the Dog's Appearance .

That the BVA is now pushing for Puppy Contracts.

One very Important thing that was mentioned by Professor Crispin was that Two of the Sources the Data will be collected from will be ,the DATA from Insurance Companies and the BVA/KC CANINE HEALTH SCHEMES,this Data will be Analysed to Produce a List of the Top Welfare Issues and Breed Priorities ,and the Council will Devise an Effective System for Addressing HEALTH PROBLEMS once they are Identified .

It was also agreed that the Conditions which Cause the Worst Welfare Problems should be Found( May I Mention MVD and SM in our Cavalier Breed) and Provide Routes and Tools for Resolving them.

The Initial Phase will be to Develope CLEAR CRITERIA for Selecting the Conditions which Cause the Most Serious Welfare Problems.

The APGAW's Chairman ,Neil Parish, MP,would be taking the Key messages to the Government.

Finally my Personal Comment on this Momentous Action to be taken on Behalf of Our Dogs,

WOULD THIS EVER HAVE HAPPENED BUT FOR THE PEDIGREE DOGS EXPOSED TV PROGRAM and JEMIMA HARRISON.

We who Love our 4 Legged Friends and Wish them to have the Chance of Healthier ,Longer Lives have so much to Thank Her For,

Also can I include ,KARLIN, MARGARET and CAROL on behalf of we who Love our Cherished Cavaliers for making this Great Event Happen.

THANK YOU ALL.

Bet

CAN THE CAVALIER BE SAVED?


As we are about to enter 2011 ,for us who really Love Cavaliers ,will now have to Accept that the Few Vociferous Cavalier Breeders who are Damaging the Cavalier Breed will never change their Views about our Breed ,that they just do not believe that Cavaliers have Health Problems , even if a Cavalier was Screaming in Pain from SM ,or was having Difficulty Breathing because of MVD, standing in front of those Few Cavalier Breeders ,their Attitude is never going to Change to the Cavalier Health Problems .

Those Vociferous Few Cavalier Breeders ,whose numbers are getting less and less ,will always believe that we who do Care about how our Cavaliers are Suffering from SM and MVD ,and mention those Health Problems on the Internet are only out to cause trouble, and it us who are causing the Trouble for the Breed.

What a Sad Out-Look to have.

Hopefully those Few Cavalier Breeders will be left behind in 2011 and the Rest of Us move Forward and do All We Can to try to Help Cavaliers suffering from the SM and MVD Problems that are Afflicting them.

Thank You All who have Read my Posts ,I know some-times I have not Minced My Words about the Health Problems in our Cherished Breed, but I have been Fighting their Cause now for over 20 years, and some-times you do Wonder at the Attitude of some of Those Few Breeders.

Bet

 

[Bet]

CAN THE CAVALIER BE SAVED?


As we are about to enter 2011 ,for us who really Love Cavaliers ,will now have to Accept that the Few Vociferous Cavalier Breeders who are Damaging the Cavalier Breed will never change their Views about our Breed ,that they just do not believe that Cavaliers have Health Problems , even if a Cavalier was Screaming in Pain from SM ,or was having Difficulty Breathing because of MVD, standing in front of those Few Cavalier Breeders ,their Attitude is never going to Change to the Cavalier Health Problems .

Those Vociferous Few Cavalier Breeders ,whose numbers are getting less and less ,will always believe that we who do Care about how our Cavaliers are Suffering from SM and MVD ,and mention those Health Problems on the Internet are only out to cause trouble, and it us who are causing the Trouble for the Breed.

What a Sad Out-Look to have.

Hopefully those Few Cavalier Breeders will be left behind in 2011 and the Rest of Us move Forward and do All We Can to try to Help Cavaliers suffering from the SM and MVD Problems that are Afflicting them.

Thank You All who have Read my Posts ,I know some-times I have not Minced My Words about the Health Problems in our Cherished Breed, but I have been Fighting their Cause now for over 20 years, and some-times you do Wonder at the Attitude of some of Those Few Breeders.

Bet

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?

This will be the Unknown for 2011.

How can this be done ,unless the Cavalier Breeders follow the Breeding Guideline Recommendations ,and give the Researchers all the Help that they need.

Also there is still so much Animosity from some in the Cavalier World towards us Cavalier Lovers who are trying to help to improve the Health of our Cavaliers when we Put our Heads above the Parapit and dare mention the Health Problems in our Cherished Cavaliers.

This is so Distressing for we Folk who are Honest enough to know and say that the Cavalier Breed is in Serious Trouble because of the Health Problems that is Afflicting the Breed,and could be in Danger of not Surviving.

I know that there are Some Cavalier Breeders doing their Utmost to give Cavaliers a Future but ,and it is a Big But that there are some even at the Level of the UK CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE who are not doing this.

What I just cannot understand is why when the Problems of SM and MVD in Cavaliers are mentioned by some of us, we are Accused of Cavalier Breeder Bashing.

If the Cavaliers did not have those Health Conditions , we would never need to Mention them.

Hopefully some of the Help needed for our Cavaliers will come from the Dog Advisory Council.

Bet

 

[Bet]

Can the cavalier be saved?

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?

This will be the Unknown for 2011.

How can this be done ,unless the Cavalier Breeders follow the Breeding Guideline Recommendations ,and give the Researchers all the Help that they need.

Also there is still so much Animosity from some in the Cavalier World towards us Cavalier Lovers who are trying to help to improve the Health of our Cavaliers when we Put our Heads above the Parapit and dare mention the Health Problems in our Cherished Cavaliers.

This is so Distressing for we Folk who are Honest enough to know and say that the Cavalier Breed is in Serious Trouble because of the Health Problems that is Afflicting the Breed,and could be in Danger of not Surviving.

I know that there are Some Cavalier Breeders doing their Utmost to give Cavaliers a Future but ,and it is a Big But that there are some even at the Level of the UK CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE who are not doing this.

What I just cannot understand is why when the Problems of SM and MVD in Cavaliers are mentioned by some of us, we are Accused of Cavalier Breeder Bashing.

If the Cavaliers did not have those Health Conditions , we would never need to Mention them.

Hopefully some of the Help needed for our Cavaliers will come from the Dog Advisory Council.

Bet

CAN THE CAVALIER BE SAVED?

This will be an uphill Struggle as has been shown by a Certain Few Cavalier Breeders who seem to have no Concerns for the Future of the Cavalier Breed.

I am sure many Lovers of Cavaliers will have been Disgusted and Shocked recently by the Tactics Employed by those Few Breeders who will go to any Lengths to try and Stop the Information needed by the Researchers being given.

They seem to be Running Scared that with the BVA/KC MRI Scanning Scheme, this Information will be Released,this is why there is to be a Meeting with the Kennel Club on 3-2-2011for this Subject in Particular to be Discussed.

Can those Few Breeders not realize the Damage they are doing to our Cavalier Breed, and making them-selves such a Laughing Stock in the Dog World.

They are a Spent Force now.

The Cavalier World can do well with-out them and let all who Truly Love Cavaliers move on to try and Save our Beloved Breed.

Bet

 

[Bet]

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?

This will be the Unknown for 2011.

How can this be done ,unless the Cavalier Breeders follow the Breeding Guideline Recommendations ,and give the Researchers all the Help that they need.

Also there is still so much Animosity from some in the Cavalier World towards us Cavalier Lovers who are trying to help to improve the Health of our Cavaliers when we Put our Heads above the Parapit and dare mention the Health Problems in our Cherished Cavaliers.

This is so Distressing for we Folk who are Honest enough to know and say that the Cavalier Breed is in Serious Trouble because of the Health Problems that is Afflicting the Breed,and could be in Danger of not Surviving.

I know that there are Some Cavalier Breeders doing their Utmost to give Cavaliers a Future but ,and it is a Big But that there are some even at the Level of the UK CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE who are not doing this.

What I just cannot understand is why when the Problems of SM and MVD in Cavaliers are mentioned by some of us, we are Accused of Cavalier Breeder Bashing.

If the Cavaliers did not have those Health Conditions , we would never need to Mention them.

Hopefully some of the Help needed for our Cavaliers will come from the Dog Advisory Council.

Bet

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?

Should the Question be, IS IT TOO LATE TO SAVE THE CAVALIER BREED.

Has the Time now come to Stop Kidding Ourselves and Face up to the Facts about the Serious Plight the Cavaliers are in because of their Serious Health Problems of SM and MVD.

No Amount of Spinning by some Cavalier Breeders can Hide this Truth.

We now know that in the Foetal Research , all of the 85 Whelps had CM.

That in a SM Report from Australia in 2010 ,of the 60 Cavaliers for Cavalier Breeding Stock,MRI Scanned by the Neurologist 50% had SM.

Even more Frightening Information,is that in a Newly Published Paper on SM ,Syrinxes have been found Lower down on the Cavaliers' Vertibrae than Mini MRI Scans had shown,presumeably this could mean that if Cavaliers were given a Full Body MRI SCAN ,more Cavaliers will be found to have SM.

What a Worrying Situation for our Cavaliers.

The Figure of 50% of Cavaliers 5-6 years of age given by Cardiologists have Heart Murmurs ,that this Figure is NO Better than it was 18 years ago.

Is there any other Dog Breed in such Mess Health Wise ,than our Beloved Cavaliers?

I will Repeat my Question,

IS IT TOO LATE TO SAVE THE CAVALIER BREED?

Maybe with the Help from Dog Advisory Council ,Cavaliers will have a Chance, and some Cavalier Breeders Stop their Petty Bickering and their Attitudes change and Face up to Facts about the Health Troubles in our Breed and give all the Help Needed to the Researchers ,also agreeing to the KC/ BVA MRI SCHEME moving Forward which the SM Researchers say is Imperative for the EBV Scheme, then our Cavaliers can be saved .

I surely do Hope so .

Bet

 

[Nicki]

Even more Frightening Information,is that in a Newly Published Paper on SM ,Syrinxes have been found Lower down on the Cavaliers' Vertebrae than Mini MRI Scans had shown,presumably this could mean that if Cavaliers were given a Full Body MRI SCAN ,more Cavaliers will be found to have SM.

Bet this isn't quite correct:

Quote from Karlin:

I am told by Dr Rusbridge that with this study, in no case was a dog not correctly diagnosed as in every case with these dogs, the syrinx appeared within the vertebrae included in a mini scan. So this finding would NOT affect a dog being correctly diagnosed with SM and would NOT alter the grade given to a dog in a single case from this sample.


from http://www.cavaliertalk.com/forums/...rinxes-in-76-of-studied-SM-affected-cavaliers


Where it might make a difference would be in scanning dog for full diagnosis -- this is why neurologists do NOT recommend using miniscans if you suspect a dog has SM and wish to have an accurate diagnosis of syrinx length, location and number.

 

[Bet]

Bet this isn't quite correct:

Quote from Karlin:

I am told by Dr Rusbridge that with this study, in no case was a dog not correctly diagnosed as in every case with these dogs, the syrinx appeared within the vertebrae included in a mini scan. So this finding would NOT affect a dog being correctly diagnosed with SM and would NOT alter the grade given to a dog in a single case from this sample.


from http://www.cavaliertalk.com/forums/...rinxes-in-76-of-studied-SM-affected-cavaliers


Where it might make a difference would be in scanning dog for full diagnosis -- this is why neurologists do NOT recommend using miniscans if you suspect a dog has SM and wish to have an accurate diagnosis of syrinx length, location and number.

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?

Just mentioned what Karlin had Quoted.,that "this is the same One Rod notes in an Earlier Thread about 76%of these Dogs also had further Syrinxes Lower than the C5 Vertibrae(and thus Dogs with Syrinxes are Likely to be worse than a Mini Scan will Show.)"

Sorry if I made a wrong Interpretation about this.

Bet

 

[Bet]

Can the cavalier breed be saved ?

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?

Just mentioned what Karlin had Quoted.,that "this is the same One Rod notes in an Earlier Thread about 76%of these Dogs also had further Syrinxes Lower than the C5 Vertibrae(and thus Dogs with Syrinxes are Likely to be worse than a Mini Scan will Show.)"

Sorry if I made a wrong Interpretation about this.

Bet

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED ?

I think this Information will be useful in this Thread .

I really Shows how so Very Important it is to Find the Genes for SM and MVD.

All Proven Carriers of both SM and MVD be With -drawn from Breeding

Since Brothers and Sisters, Sons and Daughters of Proven Carriers also have an Unacceptably High Risk of Being Carriers ,and it is Recommended that they are not Bred from,unless they have been Proven Clear by a Geneticist on the Basis of Restrospective Analysis of their Past Breeding Records ,this requires the Details from the Purchasers of the Puppies .

For Stud Dogs since they can Inflict Major Damage on a Breed should He be a Carrier ,should not be used at Stud within Two Generations.

This was the Advice given to Italian Spinoni Breeders for the Cerebellar Ataxia Problem in that Breed

I have Substituted the SM and MVD Problem in Cavaliers for Carriers of those Two Diseases ,since if they are Carriers ,then the same Effects will also apply as to what can Happen if Carriers are being used in the Cavalier Breed

Bet

 

[Bet]

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED ?

I think this Information will be useful in this Thread .

I really Shows how so Very Important it is to Find the Genes for SM and MVD.

All Proven Carriers of both SM and MVD be With -drawn from Breeding

Since Brothers and Sisters, Sons and Daughters of Proven Carriers also have an Unacceptably High Risk of Being Carriers ,and it is Recommended that they are not Bred from,unless they have been Proven Clear by a Geneticist on the Basis of Restrospective Analysis of their Past Breeding Records ,this requires the Details from the Purchasers of the Puppies .

For Stud Dogs since they can Inflict Major Damage on a Breed should He be a Carrier ,should not be used at Stud within Two Generations.

This was the Advice given to Italian Spinoni Breeders for the Cerebellar Ataxia Problem in that Breed

I have Substituted the SM and MVD Problem in Cavaliers for Carriers of those Two Diseases ,since if they are Carriers ,then the same Effects will also apply as to what can Happen if Carriers are being used in the Cavalier Breed

Bet

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?

Can I also mention that for Cavalier Folk who are Now Confused as to what the Proposed BVA /MRI SCHEME is about, this has appeared on the Club Web Site to-day

The Article says,

THIS IS WHAT IS ON THE TABLE WITH THE BVA MRI SCHEME.

I have just read it, is there any other way that the Cavalier Breed can be Saved at the Moment ,what I was pleased to note that with this Scheme, Heart Information is also included

That an EBV Value is a Combination of the SM and Heart Tests for that Cavalier ,and the Results of all it's Relatives, those on the Pedigree ,the Siblings ,and Off-Springs

Bet

 

[Margaret C]

Well spotted Bet, This is what it says on the website

For those members who are now confused as to what the proposed BVA/MRI scheme is about:

This is what is on the table with the BVA MRI scheme:

A formalised scheme embedding permanent identification on/in the dog into the scan so there is no confusion about the identity of the dog, a formal declaration by the owner, and a release form for data for research (and the EBV) and publication of results.
Some scanning centres did not do this verification of identity, and results were not automatically available to research and the EBV. Nothing was published.

A standardised protocol to MRI scan to ensure that the latest findings and research into SM are taken into account on the very best way to perform the MRI scan, ensuring the very best opportunity to determine if a small syrinx is present.
Syrinxes have been missed before. This will enable many more centres throughout the country to participate in the MRI scanning (not the interpretation which will be by a panel).

A formalised standardised interpretation of EXACTLY what is being interpreted, from 2 or even 3 experts from members of a BVA panel, and a formalised grading issued on a certificate. Extra information on CM.
Different interpretation of the same scan will no longer happen, 2 knowledgeable experts’ opinions, not just 1, a 3rd if they disagree. Uniformity of results. A grading, which didn’t happen with all previous scanning centres. More information on certificate.

Information on results published and automatically sent to EBV and available for research.
Individual can verify if dog is scanned when puppy purchased or looking for stud, and the age at which it was performed. Accessibility of information, openess and transparency.

An appeal process.

The meeting of representatives from all Cavalier Clubs on 3 February 2011 is to discuss the publication of results with the Kennel Club.For those members who are confused by the EBV value and how it will work:

EBV Value

The EBV programme is a powerful tool being developed by the AHT for use by the KC to eventually help ALL breeds eliminate complex genetic disease where genetic tests are not available for the condition.

The EBV has a very complex statistical way of working out the EBV value for a dog/bitch, which will keep being modified as results of relatives, and their own test results are received.

All dogs already have an EBV value whether or not any SM or heart results for that particular dog have been received, in that case it is based purely on the information of the relatives. EBV accuracy improves with more results and with age of test result.

An EBV value is a combination of the SM and heart tests for that individual, and the results of all of its relatives – those on his pedigree, his siblings and his offspring. It will not be possible to work out the test results from the EBV value of any dog.

As a tool to use to plan litters, you will be able to use the EBV information of your bitch combined with those of the suggested dog to predict the EBV risk for the litter.

Some dogs with a SM grading of D (a syrinx) may turn out to have a higher EBV value than a dog graded A, or be more suitable as a match for your bitch. Also a SM D graded dog may have a line of very good hearts behind him, so it is essential to keep those genes in the gene pool. Breeding guidelines allow the use of SM affected dogs.

It is vital that genetic diversity is maintained throughout the breed.

Mate Select will help you to determine the coefficient of inbreeding.

 

[Bet]

Can the cavalier breed be saved ?

For those members who are now confused as to what the proposed BVA/MRI scheme is about:

This is what is on the table with the BVA MRI scheme:

A formalised scheme embedding permanent identification on/in the dog into the scan so there is no confusion about the identity of the dog, a formal declaration by the owner, and a release form for data for research (and the EBV) and publication of results.
Some scanning centres did not do this verification of identity, and results were not automatically available to research and the EBV. Nothing was published.

A standardised protocol to MRI scan to ensure that the latest findings and research into SM are taken into account on the very best way to perform the MRI scan, ensuring the very best opportunity to determine if a small syrinx is present.
Syrinxes have been missed before. This will enable many more centres throughout the country to participate in the MRI scanning (not the interpretation which will be by a panel).

A formalised standardised interpretation of EXACTLY what is being interpreted, from 2 or even 3 experts from members of a BVA panel, and a formalised grading issued on a certificate. Extra information on CM.
Different interpretation of the same scan will no longer happen, 2 knowledgeable experts’ opinions, not just 1, a 3rd if they disagree. Uniformity of results. A grading, which didn’t happen with all previous scanning centres. More information on certificate.

Information on results published and automatically sent to EBV and available for research.
Individual can verify if dog is scanned when puppy purchased or looking for stud, and the age at which it was performed. Accessibility of information, openess and transparency.

An appeal process.

The meeting of representatives from all Cavalier Clubs on 3 February 2011 is to discuss the publication of results with the Kennel Club.For those members who are confused by the EBV value and how it will work:

EBV Value

The EBV programme is a powerful tool being developed by the AHT for use by the KC to eventually help ALL breeds eliminate complex genetic disease where genetic tests are not available for the condition.

The EBV has a very complex statistical way of working out the EBV value for a dog/bitch, which will keep being modified as results of relatives, and their own test results are received.

All dogs already have an EBV value whether or not any SM or heart results for that particular dog have been received, in that case it is based purely on the information of the relatives. EBV accuracy improves with more results and with age of test result.

An EBV value is a combination of the SM and heart tests for that individual, and the results of all of its relatives – those on his pedigree, his siblings and his offspring. It will not be possible to work out the test results from the EBV value of any dog.

As a tool to use to plan litters, you will be able to use the EBV information of your bitch combined with those of the suggested dog to predict the EBV risk for the litter.

Some dogs with a SM grading of D (a syrinx) may turn out to have a higher EBV value than a dog graded A, or be more suitable as a match for your bitch. Also a SM D graded dog may have a line of very good hearts behind him, so it is essential to keep those genes in the gene pool. Breeding guidelines allow the use of SM affected dogs.

It is vital that genetic diversity is maintained throughout the breed.

Mate Select will help you to determine the coefficient of inbreeding.

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?

Could I add to Margaret's Post, that the EBV Scheme could be the best way for saving our Cavalier Breed at the moment because of the Complex Disorders of SM and MVD that the Breed is suffering from.

The finding of those Genes are so important ,but until they are found,and because Genes can be involved with a Combination of other Genes and are not Single Mutations and Environmental Factors are often involved , this is why the EBV Program is so necessary for our Cavaliers.

Unfortunately there are a Few Blinkered Cavalier Breeders who cannot or will not see the Wood for the Trees and are so Determined to find every Excuse under the Sun that they can for not allowing the MRI Scanning Scheme to go ahead to to help Researchers with the EBV Scheme.

Do they not realize that this is the 21'st Century and not when they Ruled the Roost in the 20'th Century.

There are so many Cavalier Breeders and Owners and Lovers of our Beloved Cavaliers who can understand the Signifigance of the EBV Scheme ,why should those Mean Minded Few Cavalier Breeders be allowed to Hinder the Research Progress into SM and MVD Health Problems in the Breed.

Bet

 

[Bet]

Can the cavalier breed be saves?

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?

Could I add to Margaret's Post, that the EBV Scheme could be the best way for saving our Cavalier Breed at the moment because of the Complex Disorders of SM and MVD that the Breed is suffering from.

The finding of those Genes are so important ,but until they are found,and because Genes can be involved with a Combination of other Genes and are not Single Mutations and Environmental Factors are often involved , this is why the EBV Program is so necessary for our Cavaliers.

Unfortunately there are a Few Blinkered Cavalier Breeders who cannot or will not see the Wood for the Trees and are so Determined to find every Excuse under the Sun that they can for not allowing the MRI Scanning Scheme to go ahead to to help Researchers with the EBV Scheme.

Do they not realize that this is the 21'st Century and not when they Ruled the Roost in the 20'th Century.

There are so many Cavalier Breeders and Owners and Lovers of our Beloved Cavaliers who can understand the Signifigance of the EBV Scheme ,why should those Mean Minded Few Cavalier Breeders be allowed to Hinder the Research Progress into SM and MVD Health Problems in the Breed.

Bet

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?

As far as the Cavalier's MVD Problem is concerned ,I wonder if it can.

I have just had a Reply back from a Research Cardiologist into the Cavaliers' MVD Prblem ,I had asked him if it was possible that the Faulty Heart Genes from those Cavaliers suffering from Heart Trouble in the 1940's and 1950's who were being used for Breeding could have come down through the Generations to present day Cavaliers, and this might be a reason why there does not seem to be much improvement in the MVD Problem in our Cavalier Breed because many of to-day's Cavaliers could be Carriers of the MVD Genes.

His Reply is, Sadly that this is Likely.

So how can this be being solved.

We don't even know about the Mode of Inheritance for MVD in Cavaliers ,this means that the MVD Carriers in Cavaliers cannot be discovered till all this Researched.

There are still some Cavalier Breeders so ignorant that they say they want to get things right before the Health Problems can be tackled for our Beloved Cavaliers.

All I can say is, that the Cavalier Breeders have had since 1983 to get the Cavaliers' MVD Problem tackled ,when that was when they were warned by Dr P. Darke , the CKCS CLUBS Cardiologist,about how serious the MVD Problem was in the Cavalier Breed.

Bet

 

[Davecav]

I'm trying to understand all this, so be patient.
Bet says:
I have just had a Reply back from a Research Cardiologist into the Cavaliers' MVD Prblem ,I had asked him if it was possible that the Faulty Heart Genes from those Cavaliers suffering from Heart Trouble in the 1940's and 1950's who were being used for Breeding could have come down through the Generations to present day Cavaliers, and this might be a reason why there does not seem to be much improvement in the MVD Problem in our Cavalier Breed because many of to-day's Cavaliers could be Carriers of the MVD Genes.

His Reply is, Sadly that this is Likely.

From my niave viewpoint, that is the only answer that can be given, because logically this has happened - how else have the genes been passed down?

Bet says:
We don't even know about the Mode of Inheritance for MVD in Cavaliers ,this means that the MVD Carriers in Cavaliers cannot be discovered till all this Researched.

From what I have read on the internet, there is a lot of research being done on MVD or have I got it wrong? So there is still not an answer, which must be very upsetting for all involved, especially those that breed.

Bet says:
There are still some Cavalier Breeders so ignorant that they say they want to get things right before the Health Problems can be tackled for our Beloved Cavaliers.

Please can you point me to where this is actually quoted? becuase I don't understand this at all.
It doesn't make sense, and I would like to see where someone has actually said this so I know it's true.

 

[Bet]

Can the cavalier be saved?

I'm trying to understand all this, so be patient.
Bet says:
I have just had a Reply back from a Research Cardiologist into the Cavaliers' MVD Prblem ,I had asked him if it was possible that the Faulty Heart Genes from those Cavaliers suffering from Heart Trouble in the 1940's and 1950's who were being used for Breeding could have come down through the Generations to present day Cavaliers, and this might be a reason why there does not seem to be much improvement in the MVD Problem in our Cavalier Breed because many of to-day's Cavaliers could be Carriers of the MVD Genes.

His Reply is, Sadly that this is Likely.

From my niave viewpoint, that is the only answer that can be given, because logically this has happened - how else have the genes been passed down?

Bet says:
We don't even know about the Mode of Inheritance for MVD in Cavaliers ,this means that the MVD Carriers in Cavaliers cannot be discovered till all this Researched.

From what I have read on the internet, there is a lot of research being done on MVD or have I got it wrong? So there is still not an answer, which must be very upsetting for all involved, especially those that breed.

Bet says:
There are still some Cavalier Breeders so ignorant that they say they want to get things right before the Health Problems can be tackled for our Beloved Cavaliers.

Please can you point me to where this is actually quoted? becuase I don't understand this at all.
It doesn't make sense, and I would like to see where someone has actually said this so I know it's true.

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?

Davecav,

If you E-Mail me I will answer all your Questions.

My E- Mail Adress is

[email protected]

Bet

 

[Bet]

Can the cavalier be saved?

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?

Davecav,

If you E-Mail me I will answer all your Questions.

My E- Mail Adress is

[email protected]

Bet

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?


Davecav

I have read your Post, I will say again E- Mail me for the details you want to know about, the Quote I mentioned said that we all want to find answers in a Positive Way forward to overcome Health Problems ( this is for our Cavalier Breed),but let us have a Scheme that will Truly Work.

Bet

 

[Davecav]

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?


Davecav

I have read your Post, I will say again E- Mail me for the details you want to know about, the Quote I mentioned said that we all want to find answers in a Positive Way forward to overcome Health Problems ( this is for our Cavalier Breed),but let us have a Scheme that will Truly Work.

Bet

Thanks Bet,

So if I've interpreted the above correctly: 'the breeders are saying they want to find answers in a positive way, and want a scheme that truly works'

This seems like a fair comment from them to me. They are the ones who will have to make it work for the breed, and if there are areas that need fine tuning, or questions that need clarifying, then it seems that this should be done. From what I have read re the recent meeting, the Kennel Club and breed representatives came up with a number of proposals that will be taken back to both the Cavalier clubs, and the Kennel club for agreement.

This to me sounds a normal route to conduct negotiations, and doesn't fit with what you have said in your quote which implies the opposite, and dengrates breeders by calling them ignorant.

 

[Bet]

Can the cavalier breed be saved ?

Thanks Bet,

So if I've interpreted the above correctly: 'the breeders are saying they want to find answers in a positive way, and want a scheme that truly works'

This seems like a fair comment from them to me. They are the ones who will have to make it work for the breed, and if there are areas that need fine tuning, or questions that need clarifying, then it seems that this should be done. From what I have read re the recent meeting, the Kennel Club and breed representatives came up with a number of proposals that will be taken back to both the Cavalier clubs, and the Kennel club for agreement.

This to me sounds a normal route to conduct negotiations, and doesn't fit with what you have said in your quote which implies the opposite, and dengrates breeders by calling them ignorant.

CAN The Cavalier Breed BE SAVED ?


Davecav

Could I Gently mention to you, that the Saving and Giving the Cavaliers the Chance of having Healthier and Longer Lives will come from the Researchers and not the Breeders ,it is the Researchers, because we are now living in the 21 st Century who have the Knowledge coupled with the Science are able to deal with SM and the MVD Problems that are Afflicting our Beloved Cavaliers , in Particular their MVD Problem , for which the Cavalier Breeders have known about for well over 20 years,and 50% have a Murmur at 5-6 years of age, and this is quoted by Cartiologists ,not Vets, and is no better than it was 18 years ago, ......

What I would like to know and to be given the Proof ,how many of those MVD Figures have come from Puppy Farm Breeders?

Does any-one know, until this is found out ,this Excuse should stop being used over and over again, as the Excuse that Vets are saying that the Cavaliers' MVD Problem is declining, this can only come from Cardiologists .

NO there is still NO ANSWER to the MODE OF INHERITANCE for MVD in Cavaliers, it has not been found yet.

Health should be the Most Cavalier Breeders Priority ,thank goodness there are some who do really care on how they Breed Cavaliers because it is the Cavalier Pet Owning Public who have most of the Cavaliers.

Bet

 

[Bet]

Can the cavalier breed be saved ?

CAN The Cavalier Breed BE SAVED ?


Davecav

Could I Gently mention to you, that the Saving and Giving the Cavaliers the Chance of having Healthier and Longer Lives will come from the Researchers and not the Breeders ,it is the Researchers, because we are now living in the 21 st Century who have the Knowledge coupled with the Science are able to deal with SM and the MVD Problems that are Afflicting our Beloved Cavaliers , in Particular their MVD Problem , for which the Cavalier Breeders have known about for well over 20 years,and 50% have a Murmur at 5-6 years of age, and this is quoted by Cartiologists ,not Vets, and is no better than it was 18 years ago, ......

What I would like to know and to be given the Proof ,how many of those MVD Figures have come from Puppy Farm Breeders?

Does any-one know, until this is found out ,this Excuse should stop being used over and over again, as the Excuse that Vets are saying that the Cavaliers' MVD Problem is declining, this can only come from Cardiologists .

NO there is still NO ANSWER to the MODE OF INHERITANCE for MVD in Cavaliers, it has not been found yet.

Health should be the Most Cavalier Breeders Priority ,thank goodness there are some who do really care on how they Breed Cavaliers because it is the Cavalier Pet Owning Public who have most of the Cavaliers.

Bet

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?


Davecav,

I thought you would have sent me your E-Mail Adress so that I could have given you the Information from the Cardiologist who had replied to me about the Cavaliers' MVD Problem.

If I can go back to my Previous Post to contradict you, I never said that Cavalier Breeders were Ignorant,I was commenting on the fact that it was said ,that they want to get things right ,before the Health Problems can be Tackled.

To my way of thinking this could mean ,since it was also stated that what was wanted a Scheme that would Truly Work.

If some Cavalier Breeders won't co-operate with the Researchers and give the Information that they need , how can any Scheme succeed .

That is what I mean by some Cavalier Breeders being ignorant.

The Researchers have given their Breeding Guideline Recommendations, along with the same ones from UK CKCS CLUB, that a Cavalier should not be Bred from before 2.5 years of age, not have SM or MVD ,and the Health Status of the Parents are known at 5 years.

What do we find, that a Cavalier Breeder has Bred from an underage Cavalier.

Bet