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Can the cavalier breed be saved?

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I don't know who the reporter was, the magazine it was in or what chatterbox is, but I have to say the reporter may be right about one thing. Dont underestimate the pet owning public. Now we live in an age where we have things like MRIs, advances in medicine to identify what exactly is an issue, and how great it would be to have a database to track these things for progress. Say maybe a health registry? So to say if SM was common, it would have been known by now is "rubbish". That's why the internet and other things are bringing advancement in all areas. We do not live in the time where things are among clubs, shows, crufts, etc. are the only way cavalier lovers can meet and talk about things.

Don't underestimate facebook and other methods people (pet owners) have to talk about things to notice there is a problem or to say something is wrong with my dog. We now have a support that was not there before. If there has always been a problem covered up or not is no longer an issue. PDE brought to light several things but I feel that eventually it would have been brought to light anyway. Better before than later.



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Can the cavalier breed be saved.

anniemac said:
I don't know who the reporter was, the magazine it was in or what chatterbox is, but I have to say the reporter may be right about one thing. Dont underestimate the pet owning public. Now we live in an age where we have things like MRIs, advances in medicine to identify what exactly is an issue, and how great it would be to have a database to track these things for progress. Say maybe a health registry? So to say if SM was common, it would have been known by now is "rubbish". That's why the internet and other things are bringing advancement in all areas. We do not live in the time where things are among clubs, shows, crufts, etc. are the only way cavalier lovers can meet and talk about things.

Don't underestimate facebook and other methods people (pet owners) have to talk about things to notice there is a problem or to say something is wrong with my dog. We now have a support that was not there before. If there has always been a problem covered up or not is no longer an issue. PDE brought to light several things but I feel that eventually it would have been brought to light anyway. Better before than later.



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Click to expand...

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?

Our New Year's Resolution 2011 should be for the Saving of Our Cavalier Breed as anniemac's Post has said, it is going to be the Cavalier Pet Owning who are going to be Mainly Responsible for succeeding in this Happening.

I know that there are some Cavalier Breeders who are trying their Best to Achieve this Goal, but unfortunately they are being Hindered by a Few Vociferous Cavalier Breeders who are trying by what -ever means they can in Thwarting and Delaying the Advance of the Information needed by the Researchers.

For Example the Delaying Tactics for the MRI Scheme ,also how a UK CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE MEMBER has used an Under-Aged Cavalier for Breeding ,and by doing this is not following the Breeding Guideline Recommendations given by the CKCS CLUB and the Researchers into the Most Serious Problems Afllicting our Cherished Cavaliers, SM and MVD,why has this Committee Member still been allowed to be a Member of the CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE.

Why the Article from OUR DOGS was ever used as an Issue for Cavaliers' Health in Chatterbox will always remain a Mystery.

Thank Goodness Margaret collecting the Bodies of Cavaliers who have died ,in order that their Tissue can be being used by the Different Researchers into the Cavaliers Health Problems, so Please remember Folks, if you are able to do this ,it will be such a benefit for giving our Cavaliers the Chance of Healthier, Longer Lives .

We now have learned that the 85 Whelps Researched ,all had CM,so back to the Question.

CAN THE CAVALIER BE SAVED?

Now that we have Learned that Some Cavalier Breeders are putting Obstacles in the way of the Researchers trying to Achieve this,it is up to us Folk who Love the Cavalier Breed to get the Message accross to the Cavalier Buying Public, only Buy a Cavalier from a Cavalier Breeder who is Health Testing their Cavalier Breeding Stock, and Following the Breeding Guideline Recommendations.

Finally can I say on a Personal Note, at the end of 2010 ,I am so Pleased that I Received the Vile Anonymous Letter that was sent to me, that I have had Many Abusive Remarks made to me on Other Cavalier Forums, that my Mental State was Questioned by a Newly Elected Member of the CKCS CLUB COMMITTEE,it goes to Prove that I am Hitting the Raw Nerves of some of those Cavalier Folk.!!!!

ALL THE VERY BEST TO YOU ALL ON THIS LIST FOR 2011

AND LANG MAY YOUR LUM REEK.

Bet
 
Hello Bet

What I wish for 2011 is the naming and shaming of any club member who does not adhere to the Cavalier and Kennel Clubs guidelines for breeding and health testing and equally our whole hearted support for all members who do adhere to these guidelines and for the Kennel Club to refuse registration or any puppy without all the necessary certificates to prove compliance.

If as I hear, there are prominent and well known breeders who often ignore these guidelines how I so wish these people would be publicly named and shamed and cast out from their own respective clubs or persuaded to comply with their own Clubs rules as then I am sure we could all then move forward .

We may not be able to affect the many BYB and Puppy Farms but how I also wish Club members would use their own influence and knowledge by stamping out this problem within their own ranks and all Cavalier lovers would then able to show a united front with pet people fully supporting the breeders and breeders supporting their puppy owners and then we all be able to move forward to help save our breed as one .

This is my wish for 2011 .

Brian and
Poppy ,Daisy ,Rosie and Lily
 
Brian M said:
Hello Bet

What I wish for 2011 is the naming and shaming of any club member who does not adhere to the Cavalier and Kennel Clubs guidelines for breeding and health testing and equally our whole hearted support for all members who do adhere to these guidelines and for the Kennel Club to refuse registration or any puppy without all the necessary certificates to prove compliance.

If as I hear, there are prominent and well known breeders who often ignore these guidelines how I so wish these people would be publicly named and shamed and cast out from their own respective clubs or persuaded to comply with their own Clubs rules as then I am sure we could all then move forward .

We may not be able to affect the many BYB and Puppy Farms but how I also wish Club members would use their own influence and knowledge by stamping out this problem within their own ranks and all Cavalier lovers would then able to show a united front with pet people fully supporting the breeders and breeders supporting their puppy owners and then we all be able to move forward to help save our breed as one .

This is my wish for 2011 .

Brian and
Poppy ,Daisy ,Rosie and Lily
Click to expand...

CAN THE CAVALIER BREED BE SAVED?

Thanks Brian for your Post,

I think that now so Many of us Cavalier Lovers have Realized just what we are up against, we must do all in our Power to Curtail the Activities, of those who are Holding so Much Power in the Cavalier World.

It is the Cavalier Pet Owning Public, who have the Most Cavaliers, not the Few Vociferous Cavalier Breeders who are Shouting the Loudest and doing so much harm to our Cavaliers.

Let us all stand to-gether in 2011 and see what we can Achieve

Let Those Few Vociferous Cavalier Breeders who are Damaging our Cherished Cavaliers so much be made to take a Back Seat before they Finish Cavaliers off all to-gether.

Bet
 
I have spent some time today looking at things and I will post more later but I wanted to say this.

I have been shocked by just how much politics are involved with dogs who in the end are the ones who suffer so what are we doing to our friends? After reading things online, comments on other forums, websites, and responses to the either the Pedigree Dogs Exposed aftermath or about responses for reasons why KC/BVA scheme reference SM was postponed. I know we are not supposed to talk about other threads but it was a rude awakening.

I live in the USA so even though PDE was shown it did not get the reaction that it has in the UK. I am not sure what channel and I am sure it did not get the press that it did in the UK. So I went to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedigree_Dogs_Exposed and also to other websites to get information. I know blogs, forums, etc. is not a good resource but it did give me a really negative view of just how defensive some people are. I don’t think I came up with an answer to why the KC/BVA scheme was postponed just comments that I will not mention. I guess this quote might be true
“Politics is the art of postponing decisions until they are no longer relevant.”
Henri Queuille quotes


So anyone who wants to make an excuse, blame others, etc are not credible in my book. I simply don’t care. I know there are breeders that are doing health tests but until there is enforcement and those are recognized, improvements made, it really is just talk and has no merit.
“The more you are willing to accept responsibility for your actions, the more credibility you will have”
Brian Koslow quotes (American author and entrepreneur)

Margaret has great blogs that I read and highlighted to quote but I feel since I live in the US, my focus should be there. But I wanted to quote one thing because it is something that is true everywhere.

“I had become convinced that the only way things were going to change was for the pet buying public to know that there were serious inherited problems in the breed.


A well informed public that demanded to see evidence that the dogs were health tested was the only factor that would persuade breeders to change. “ Margaret


I feel since I live in the US, I have no place to comment or demand changes in the Cavalier Club in the UK. I think that Margaret and others on this forum are doing a good job.

What I found in the US is there are many great articles and advice on Club websites but what is being done to follow it? I can not find the SM breeding protocol. How can I or other pet owners support those who are doing, educate and question what is being done?

I am working on that. I will say they have great articles but what is it "Actions speak louder than words". So let me try listen to that advice and try to do something.

Jerold S Bell, DVM
Tufts Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine, N. Grafton, MA


(This article originally appeared in the “Healthy Dog” section of the October, 2003 AKC Gazette)
Working together to improve our breeds


“Reducing the stigma of genetic disease involves raising the level of conversation from gossip to constructive communication.

 
That post was all over the place :)

I see what reaction and pressure is actually doing and even though things are postponed, I wonder why are we not having talks?

I know there was a response from the Today show piece on PDE at one time but I can't find it anymore.

There are great research and breeders trying but how do we know?

There seems to be a health registry starting but I want the public to know these things and put pressure on it.

Also one club has fines for breeding under a year or over 8, can't that be changed to enforce the MVD protocol and let us say how great we are doing.

It actually could help people want to buy from those doing

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anniemac said:
...What I found in the US is there are many great articles and advice on Club websites but what is being done to follow it? I can not find the SM breeding protocol. How can I or other pet owners support those who are doing, educate and question what is being done? ...
Click to expand...

Yes, it is a fact: the syringomyelia breeding protocol is not to be found on either of the USA's national CKCS club websites (it is, however, here: http://www.cavalierhealth.org/smprotocol.htm#International_Syringomyelia).

And, neither is the mitral valve disease breeding protocol (http://cavalierhealth.org/mvdprotocol.htm#The_MVD_Protocol_) to be found on the AKC's cavalier parent club website, that of the American Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Club (ACKCSC). But that is not surprising, because the ACKCSC steadfastly has refused to ever acknowledge the existence of the MVD breeding protocol. Instead, it has made up a bogus protocol:

Currently, the recommended practice is to wait until a Cavalier is two years old or older before the first breeding and to know the parents and ancestral cardiac status. Cavaliers with early onset presentations of MVD (before four years of age) should not be bred and breeders need to work with the guidance of their cardiologists. http://ackcsc.org/health/hearts.html
Click to expand...

... whatever that means.

As for the other national club, the CKCSC,USA, that club's board of directors promptly unanimously endorsed the real MVD breeding protocol the same weekend that it was introduced to US breeders in May 1998. But this past April, the CKCSC,USA's board (even though one member of which was also on the 1998 board) dumped the 1998 endorsement of the real MVD breeding protocol and instead, with great pride and fanfare, unveiled its own bogus protocol:

The CKCSC,USA recommends that prior to breeding any Cavalier, the dog have a clear rating at two years of age from an auscultation by a board certified veterinary cardiologist.
Click to expand...

Amazingly, the real protocol still is published on the CKCSC,USA's website (http://www.ckcsc.org/ckcsc/ckcsc_inc.nsf/founded-1954/heart.html). Apparently its board members haven't gotten around to expunging it yet.

In a timely veterinary research journal article, published in September of this year, Dr. Clarence Kvart confirmed that anything less than the real MVD breeding protocol has not worked and is a waste of time. So, the bottom line is that neither USA national club is at all serious about eliminating early-onset MVD in future generations of cavaliers. Their mutual attitude is:

To hell with them dogs! Let 'em suffer and die young!!!
Click to expand...
 
RodRussell said:
Yes, it is a fact: the syringomyelia breeding protocol is not to be found on either of the USA's national CKCS club websites (it is, however, here: http://www.cavalierhealth.org/smprotocol.htm#International_Syringomyelia).

And, neither is the mitral valve disease breeding protocol (http://cavalierhealth.org/mvdprotocol.htm#The_MVD_Protocol_) to be found on the AKC's cavalier parent club website, that of the American Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Club (ACKCSC). But that is not surprising, because the ACKCSC steadfastly has refused to ever acknowledge the existence of the MVD breeding protocol. Instead, it has made up a bogus protocol:



... whatever that means.

As for the other national club, the CKCSC,USA, that club's board of directors promptly unanimously endorsed the real MVD breeding protocol the same weekend that it was introduced to US breeders in May 1998. But this past April, the CKCSC,USA's board (even though one member of which was also on the 1998 board) dumped the 1998 endorsement of the real MVD breeding protocol and instead, with great pride and fanfare, unveiled its own bogus protocol:



Amazingly, the real protocol still is published on the CKCSC,USA's website (http://www.ckcsc.org/ckcsc/ckcsc_inc.nsf/founded-1954/heart.html). Apparently its board members haven't gotten around to expunging it yet.

In a timely veterinary research journal article, published in September of this year, Dr. Clarence Kvart confirmed that anything less than the real MVD breeding protocol has not worked and is a waste of time. So, the bottom line is that neither USA national club is at all serious about eliminating early-onset MVD in future generations of cavaliers. Their mutual attitude is:
Click to expand...


CAN THE CAVALIER BE SAVED?

Because we are working for the Good of the Cavalier Breed ,and I DO NOT INCLUDE THE VOCIFEROUS Few Cavalier Breeders in this Statement ,who are Shouting From the Roof Tops trying to Influence the Cavalier World about what they know about Cavaliers and are doing so much Damage to the Breed by not co-operating with the Researchers into the MVD and SM Problems in the Cavalier Breed , for us who really Love our Beloved Cavaliers ,the Right
Moment will Present itself and we will know how to move forward to Endeavour to save our Cavaliers.

Whether it will be by giving all the Information we can to those Researchers who are involved with the Cavaliers' Health Problems ,telling the Buyers of Cavaliers that the Cavalier Breed is a Very Sick Breed at the Moment and only to buy from Cavalier Breeders who are Health Testing and following the Breeding Guideline Recommenadtions in their Cavalier Breeding Stock, and most importantly to see the Proof that this is being done.

This will Happen ,we are in the Majority now, Cavalier Pet Owners, as an Aside ,it was said by a Cavalier Breeder ,that the only Reason why Cavalier Pet Owners have Health Problems in their Cavaliers ,is because they have bought their Cavaliers from Cavalier Puppy Farmers or BYB's of Cavaliers.

I never heard that Excuse given before, some Cavalier Breeders will Grasp at any reason for not taking most of the Blame for the Serious State Cavaliers are in at the Moment because of the Health Problems Afflicting them.

Perhaps it can be Explained ,why most of the MVD Data is from CKCS SHOWS ,this will be CKCS MEMBERS Cavaliers, not from Cavalier Pet Owners.

Bet

.
 
Brian M said:
Hello Bet

What I wish for 2011 is the naming and shaming of any club member who does not adhere to the Cavalier and Kennel Clubs guidelines for breeding and health testing and equally our whole hearted support for all members who do adhere to these guidelines and for the Kennel Club to refuse registration or any puppy without all the necessary certificates to prove compliance.

If as I hear, there are prominent and well known breeders who often ignore these guidelines how I so wish these people would be publicly named and shamed and cast out from their own respective clubs or persuaded to comply with their own Clubs rules as then I am sure we could all then move forward .

We may not be able to affect the many BYB and Puppy Farms but how I also wish Club members would use their own influence and knowledge by stamping out this problem within their own ranks and all Cavalier lovers would then able to show a united front with pet people fully supporting the breeders and breeders supporting their puppy owners and then we all be able to move forward to help save our breed as one .

This is my wish for 2011 .

Brian and
Poppy ,Daisy ,Rosie and Lily
Click to expand...

This is great Brian and I have been trying to come up with the million dollar question, how to do all this and prevent BYB's. You know if I keep trying to come up with the best solution, the best guidelines, nothing is perfect. That is just stopping the process. I don't know maybe one step at a time. Breeders are not all bad and we all need to support each other and each country, each owner, each dog, vets, rescues, Cavalier Lovers.

Think of a Domino theory. If we put pressure on breeders of the Cavalier Clubs to follow protocol and make it more known to the public, then I think that will help with BYB. No not everyone will be educated and not everyone will ask breeders certain questions but if the clubs set specific guidelines, educate the public to ask breeders certain questions and see the results, then wouldn't that at least stop one or two people from buying from a BYB?

Maybe we can't save all and I wish that these Clubs would stand out so because they actually could help people and educate us. They are the ones that I want to help the breed and the ones that know a lot more about Cavaliers and I would never want to breed and have that responsibility. Sorry rambling again.

I have been looking at Puppy Mill legislation in the US, how to stop BYB, club websites, and then not to mention looking at videos of shelters (not with Cavaliers) and sobbing. It is hard to love animals and the more I look into it, the more questions I have.
 
Bet said:
CAN THE CAVALIER BE SAVED?
Perhaps it can be Explained ,why most of the MVD Data is from CKCS SHOWS ,this will be CKCS MEMBERS Cavaliers, not from Cavalier Pet Owners.
Bet
Click to expand...

Your giving out wrong infomation as i have read in the past that infomation came from the data collected from VETS and not CKCS SHOWS.
 
Well, what do you know?! The CKCSC,USA's board actually did tweak the abomination of an MVD breeding protocol which it had passed in April, when it dumped the REAL MVD breeding protocol which an earlier -- and far wiser -- board had passed 12 years ago.

Here is the latest version, which the present board apparently voted on at its October meeting and just slithered out for public viewing in the current issue of The Bulletin:

The CKCSC,USA recommends that prior to breeding any Cavalier, the dog should have a heart clearance from an auscultation by a board certified veterinary cardiologist that is consistent with prevailing cardiology protocols; however, the CKCSC,USA recommends a minimum of a cardiology clearance at age 2.5 years by a board certified cardiologist.
Click to expand...

So, apparently we get back A THIRD of the REAL protocol, leaving out these two essential elements:

• Do not breed any Cavalier under the age of 5 years, unless its parents' hearts were free of MVD murmurs by age 5 years.

• Do not breed any Cavalier who is diagnosed with an MVD murmur under the age of 5 years.

Should we be grateful for whatever crumbs the highnesses choose to throw our way? I think NOT!!! Write to these people and tell them that they should hide their obvious contempt for future generations of cavaliers, and that they should swallow their bottomless pride, and REINSTATE THE ENTIRE REAL MVD BREEDING PROTOCOL!!!

Their email addies are here: http://www.ckcsc.org/ckcsc/ckcsc_inc.nsf/Founded-1954/nationalbod.html And read this new editorial about the subject, which I found on line: http://www.cavalierhealth.org/editorial.htm
 
Last edited:
Rod,

I am so confused. I still see under the heart information on health http://www.ckcsc.org/ckcsc/ckcsc_inc.nsf/founded-1954/heart.html

"The panelists concluded that, ideally, Cavaliers should be 5 years of age or older and heart-clear when they are first bred. However, recognizing the problems associated with breeding females for the first time at 5 years of age, the following was recommended as a secondary approach to reducing the incidence of MVD:

The Brood Bitch should be a minimum of two and a half years old with a clear heart and with both parents with clear heart certificates issued at five years of age or older.

The Stud Dog should be a minimum of two and a half years old with a clear heart and with both parents with clear heart certificates issued at five years of age or older.

All clear heart certificates must be signed by Board Certified Veterinary Cardiologists.

To use an older stud dog with a clear heart certificate issued as late in life as possible is highly desirable. However, an older dog with a slight murmur should not be ignored. It is strongly advised that breeding stock under 5 years old be limited to those with clear heart certificates.

The extent of MVD can be decreased, and the age of onset can be delayed, by breeding only Cavaliers which have been examined by Board Certified Veterinary Cardiologists at age 2 1/2 years or older and found free of MVD murmurs, AND whose parents were similarly examined at age 5 years or older and found to be murmur-free. We refer to these dogs as being “Heart-Clear”.

Raising the age of onset of MVD should be every breeder's immediate aim. The best way to approach this is to select breeding stock with good heart records behind them. It is strongly recommended that ALL Cavaliers be auscultated (examined with a stethoscope) by a Board Certified Veterinary Cardiologist at 2 1/2 years of age or older and annually thereafter, especially within a year of being bred, and the results submitted to the Health Registry.

These guidelines are based on the current recommendations of geneticists and cardiologists and may be updated and reissued by the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel Club, USA when further research becomes available.


CKCSC’S Ongoing Commitment To Healthy Cavaliers
  • The CKCSC has initiated an Open Health Registry where heart certificate results and other health related results for Cavaliers in North America and Canada, from any registry recognized by CKCSC, can be listed. For more information on the Open Health Registry go to Open Health Registry (link to the Introduction to the Open Health Registry). To download the Health Registry form from our website, go here.
  • By initiating and financially supporting this Open Health Registry, CKCSC hopes that the current incidence of Mitral Valve Disease (MVD) (roughly 50% of Cavaliers aged 5 years and approx 98% of 10 years, are affected with MVD) can be substantially reduced starting with the offspring of the first generation of Cavaliers who take part in the Open health Registry program. Significant progress can be measured on an annual basis, as seen by the number of 5 year old heart-clear Cavaliers listed on the Open Health Registry.
  • CKCSC encourages Regional Clubs to set up Cavalier Health Days at veterinary clinics whereby Cavaliers an be examined by trained specialists for heart problems and other disorders. CKCSC will subsidize these clinics to provide economical health examinations for our Cavaliers.

  • The assistance of John Bonagura, DVM, MS, Professor and Head of Clinical Cardiology Services, College of Veterinary Medicine, Ohio State University, is greatly appreciated in review of this synopsis.
First I want to know more about the open health registry... but I am trying with all I can but I don't see these changes. However, I am not a member of the Club but I am working on that even though she might not be able to be registered due to something on another post.

I am still trying to figure out the CHIC HEALTH REGISTRY FOR THE CKCS approved by the ACKCSC. Anyway, I printed all of the stuff on cavalierhealth.org and will try to figure this out.

I think that people and breeders in the national clubs know a lot more than any "Hobby" or BYB. I say that it is up to the pet owners to educate and to ask if the breeders are testing for X, Y, Z, what they are doing etc. However we need to support these Clubs because we need them and we need them to help the future of our breed and to Help us, Help them.


 
In my opinion this has to start from the top and that is the Kennel Club and Government and then it would pass down the lines.

1) The UK KC should STOP registering puppies from breeders that haven't undertaken ALL the necersary health tests on the parents (both Parents) - for our Cavies this should include Heart Certs, MRI scans at the advised protocol, eyes etc
2) Puppies would not be eligable for registration if one or more parents was under 2.5 years at time of Mating.

The government should scrap their idea of bring back dog licences and agree a licence for Breeding dogs where by ANYONE breeding a dog should have a licence to do so and that breeder can only become an Acredited breeder IF all the proper health testing is taken place.

No one should be granted a licence by the council under the Breeding and Sale of Dogs Act for more than say 10 breeding bitches.

This could put a halt to the horendous Puppy Farming industry.

Micro chipping should be made mandatory and pups should be chipped before leaving a breeder. That way they can always be traced back to that breeder and Veterinary professionals could have a means to report those bringing in Pups with out a chip for first vacinations etc


There is too much wrong with alot of our Government legislation in regards to Dog ownership, sale and breeding and I think the government have a lot to answer for.
They are wasting there time and our money on things that dont matter- think of how many millions of the tax payers money was wasted with the ID card scheme that has now been trashed!!!

Any one of the above would be good start and not just for our precious Cavaliers but for all dogs of all breeds suffering in rescue centres, bad homes, pounds and puppy mills!:d*g:
 
anniemac said:
Rod,

I am so confused. I still see under the heart information on health http://www.ckcsc.org/ckcsc/ckcsc_inc.nsf/founded-1954/heart.html...

...First I want to know more about the open health registry... but I am trying with all I can but I don't see these changes. However, I am not a member of the Club but I am working on that even though she might not be able to be registered due to something on another post.

I am still trying to figure out the CHIC HEALTH REGISTRY FOR THE CKCS approved by the ACKCSC. Anyway, I printed all of the stuff on cavalierhealth.org and will try to figure this out.

I think that people and breeders in the national clubs know a lot more than any "Hobby" or BYB. I say that it is up to the pet owners to educate and to ask if the breeders are testing for X, Y, Z, what they are doing etc. However we need to support these Clubs because we need them and we need them to help the future of our breed and to Help us, Help them.
Click to expand...

You have every reason to be confused by the CKCSC,USA's website. The health pages of the website were maintained by Anne Eckersley-Robins (breeder of Chadwick Cavaliers), who until recently was chairman of the club's Health & Education Committee. She resigned this year after the club's board of directors passed that stupid bogus MVD protocol in April ("The CKCSC,USA recommends that prior to breeding any Cavalier, the dog have a clear rating at two years of age from an auscultation by a board certified veterinary cardiologist."). She was president of the club in 1998 when the MVD protocol was introduced at the Atlanta symposium, and she got the club board to unanimously endorse the REAL MVD protocol in May 1998. She had every reason to be upset by the current board's actions and resign.

Anyway, I think it is just a matter of time before her writings about MVD on the website get revised -- "cleansed", if you will -- because the current board now is denying that the club ever endorsed the REAL protocol, and Anne's writings on the health pages prove that claim to be a lie and how foolish the current board is behaving.

Anne, what are your questions about the CKCSC,USA's health registry and CHIC? Anne Eckersley-Robins and my bride set up the CKCSC,USA health registry in 1998, and my bride ran it for its first four years.
 
It takes me time to go through everything but CHIC seems wonderful and its mentioned but again are people doing it? I see these things and tools out there even information on why its useful, but things are only good if people do them. I noticed Anne has the registery information on the website and she has a lot of entries. There are articles information tools for researchers but I hope people use them.


Rod I sent you an email because I wanted more information about clinics

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Anne did a good thing and such a backwards step when I've seen and but I don't have it in front of me, where researchers said even though MVD is a problem, the good thing is if people follow protocols it could be beneficial.

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anniemac said:
Anne did a good thing and such a backwards step when I've seen and but I don't have it in front of me, where researchers said even though MVD is a problem, the good thing is if people follow protocols it could be beneficial.

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Click to expand...

CAN THE CAVALIER BE SAVED?

Unfortunately here in Britain ,even although the UK CKCS CLUB has issued Breeding Guideline Recommendations ,it still allows Committee Members to use Under Age Cavaliers for Breeding.

When this brought to the Attention of the Cavalier World here, there is Cyber Bullying, and Baiting carried out by a Few Vociferous Cavalier Breeders because we are Inconvenient Challengers to their Cosy Cavalier World.

They try to do as much Damage to us who Love our Cavalier Breed by Spreading Lies and Innuendoes against us because we have Dared to mention that this is happening.

Bet
 
Brian M said:
Hello Bet

What I wish for 2011 is the naming and shaming of any club member who does not adhere to the Cavalier and Kennel Clubs guidelines for breeding and health testing and equally our whole hearted support for all members who do adhere to these guidelines and for the Kennel Club to refuse registration or any puppy without all the necessary certificates to prove compliance.

If as I hear, there are prominent and well known breeders who often ignore these guidelines how I so wish these people would be publicly named and shamed and cast out from their own respective clubs or persuaded to comply with their own Clubs rules as then I am sure we could all then move forward .

We may not be able to affect the many BYB and Puppy Farms but how I also wish Club members would use their own influence and knowledge by stamping out this problem within their own ranks and all Cavalier lovers would then able to show a united front with pet people fully supporting the breeders and breeders supporting their puppy owners and then we all be able to move forward to help save our breed as one .

This is my wish for 2011 .

Brian and
Poppy ,Daisy ,Rosie and Lily
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Ella's fathers Pedigree has several UK Cavalier Champions which even though I am not in the UK or a member of the Cavalier Club I want to know if they are now following this protocol and be pressured. There are a couple that were Champions and was told they are well known. I am pretty sure some of her SM genes were from some of her line. So I really want to know if they are now without naming on the forum (I think that is one of the guidelines) I would like for either you Brian or someone else in the UK to help find out. I don't know if it is just because of his line or if her mother also contributed, but I feel that even though this was a long time ago (her great grandfather) I want to make sure they are not one of these breeders you are talking about because if they still are ones ignoring this I would like to give them a piece of my mind. If they did not know then, fine, but if they know now and not doing anything with that knowledge shame.
 
I know you must be angry that your girl is suffering with SM, but it would be wrong to assume that a particular dog or dogs in her pedigree were contributors of the gene(s) that cause the condition, unless it can be proved that those dogs have produced offspring with the condition.
There are lots of dogs in any pedigree - though in cavaliers - we have been told they all goback to a small number of dogs. I think it's fair to say this would be the case with any pedigree dog, as breeders of a new breed have to start somewhere.
If you assume that it is a particular dog or dogs and you are wrong, then giving a breeder a piece of your mind for something they didn't do could be construde as a bit unfair. ;) (just because a breeder does - or does not follow guidelines, doesn't garantee healthy or unhealthy pups - reasearchers have set the age to breed as a guideline to help, so that if there are early signs of the condition, those dogs should not be bred from)
How old were the UK champions when they produced the offspring that are also in your girls pedigree? if they were over 2.5yrs old at that time - then at that point no guidelines were contravened as far as I can see.
 
You obviously have a very beautiful and well bred cavalier.
I would agree to a certain extent with DaveCav.It's impossible to hold any one dog responsible for SM within a 4 generation pedigree.Which dog (or dogs) have contributed is almost impossible to say.There were no "obvious" candidates within my girl's pedigree but still she was affected.
As for following protocols,the breeding guidelines re: SM were issued in 2007???
and included in the CKCS club code of best practice this summer.No doubt someone will correct me if this is wrong.
SM had taken a hold in the breed long before there were protocols or Mri scanning.
Even if a breeder now follows the breeding guidelines,they are still allowed to breed from an affected animal if the other mate is unaffected in order to maintain genetic diversity.Even if two unaffected cavaliers are mated over 2.5 years,they can still produce an SM affected offspring(although the chances are significantly reduced).
*See Margarets Blog BVA/Kc seminar for info from studies on this.
Breeding protocols and guidelines still haven't captured the imagination of the cavalier breeding world anywhere...they are not mandatory and enforcable.
There has always been export of cavalier stock worldwide from the UK and the onus really is on the purchaser/importer to ensure that any breeding stock being brought in has it's health status verified before breeding from it.
Responsibility for the litter rests with the breeder...as it is he/she who makes the decision to breed..
The information regarding SM is widely publicised now and there's little excuse for believing it to be an obscure or "rare" condition.
Ultimately it is the pet owner who gets the raw deal and the cavalier the pain and suffering.
Sins
 
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