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Mate Select
- Thread starter Brian M
- Start date
Jasper and Holly
Well-known member
What's mate select???
Brian M
Well-known member
Hi Deb
Sorry for not explaining have a look at the links below.
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=2947
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/cgi-bin/search.cgi?qt=MAE+SELECT
Sorry for not explaining have a look at the links below.
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/cgi-bin/item.cgi?id=2947
http://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/cgi-bin/search.cgi?qt=MAE+SELECT
Mate select
MATE SELECT
Could I say I have written to the Kennel Club about their MATE SELECT ,in particular our CKCS Breed.
What I wanted an Answer to was , it is a Fact that the Researchers into the Cavaliers' SM and MVD Problems and to try and delay the Early Onset of both MVD and SM, not to Breed from a Cavalier before 2.5 years of age and to know the Health Status of the Parents at 5.
Has this been Incorporated into the KENNEL CLUB'S Mate Select for our CKCS BREED.
I am still awaiting a Reply.
Bet
Hi
Caroline Klisko was on Radio 5 at 6.50 am today saying Mate Select is live from today .
It will be interesting reading comments about it .
MATE SELECT
Could I say I have written to the Kennel Club about their MATE SELECT ,in particular our CKCS Breed.
What I wanted an Answer to was , it is a Fact that the Researchers into the Cavaliers' SM and MVD Problems and to try and delay the Early Onset of both MVD and SM, not to Breed from a Cavalier before 2.5 years of age and to know the Health Status of the Parents at 5.
Has this been Incorporated into the KENNEL CLUB'S Mate Select for our CKCS BREED.
I am still awaiting a Reply.
Bet
Jasper and Holly
Well-known member
'Woof, He's Fit' - The New Doggie Dating Website That Puts Health First
The first thing I thought when I saw this was is this for real! Lol
Sounds amazing. This is just what is needed to stop all this bad breeding.
The first thing I thought when I saw this was is this for real! Lol
Sounds amazing. This is just what is needed to stop all this bad breeding.
Margaret C
Well-known member
Look out for Channel Five News.
Tommy & I have just been filmed for Channel Five News. There is no guarantee that we will actually be shown as the Mate Select item may easily be dropped if something more exciting happens.
With any luck there may be a five second shot of us in the garden.
Tommy & I have just been filmed for Channel Five News. There is no guarantee that we will actually be shown as the Mate Select item may easily be dropped if something more exciting happens.
With any luck there may be a five second shot of us in the garden.
Mate select
MATE SELECT
I have just E-MAILED the KENNEL CLUB AGAIN with this Query.
If this is not Incorporated into the Mate Select Information, that Cavaliers have not been Bred from before 2.5 years of Age,have no SM or MVD and the Health Status of the Parents is known at 5, .
For our Cavaliers is the Mate Select Information just a waste of time.
Bet
MATE SELECT
I have just E-MAILED the KENNEL CLUB AGAIN with this Query.
If this is not Incorporated into the Mate Select Information, that Cavaliers have not been Bred from before 2.5 years of Age,have no SM or MVD and the Health Status of the Parents is known at 5, .
For our Cavaliers is the Mate Select Information just a waste of time.
Bet
Mate select
MATE SELECT
Can I give a Big THANK YOU TO MARGARET having just watched her on the TV Program.
She put the Health of our Cavalier Breed so Succinctly.
Bet
MATE SELECT
Can I give a Big THANK YOU TO MARGARET having just watched her on the TV Program.
She put the Health of our Cavalier Breed so Succinctly.
Bet
Margaret C
Well-known member
There was actually quite a bit of footage of Tommy on my lap while I talked about his SM symptoms & some film of us in the garden ( I bet people were confused about the other little flat faced dogs running about )
It was broadcast on Channel 5 News at 5pm & there were also interviews with the KC Secretary, Caroline Kisko and Beverley Cuddy, Editor of Dogs Today Magazine.
Unfortunately their only other news slot at 7 o'clock was only a five minute round-up because of the cricket coverage, so that was the only time it was shown.
I had a few calls from people that saw it & my darling daughter managed to record it.
Mate Select is a good initiative by the Kennel Club and another thing that will help both breeders and pet owners to know how inbred their cavaliers may be.
These are the COI of some pairings..........
Father/daughter - mother/son: 25%
Brother/sister: 25%
Half-brother/half-sister: 12.5%
Uncle/niece - aunt/nephew: 12.5%
Cousin/cousin: 6.25%
Many pedigree dogs, although seemingly unrelated, are very inbred because of the close matings of ancestors over many decades.
I checked Faith, who would not seem to be at all inbred from her five generation pedigree.............She was 6.1%, nearly as inbred as two cousins breeding together.
One of the cavalier stud dogs in the latest BRS, from a closely bred line, is a mouth dropping 33.2%
anniemac
Well-known member
As a potential puppy buyer, asking what the COI is would not cross my mind. Really, far more important they are doing health testing and not just minimum. I would want to know breeder etc. but they are the ones that have been breeding and know lines (at least in the USA) and would know far more than me. It doesn't take long to know who is doing what and when I got serious of couse I am sure they would give me certificates even if I didn't ask.
The only way is to get involved and go to shows, be a member of the clubs, they are some that have good points. I highly doubt any breeder that was breeding with health as a priority (there are some) would be breeding dad/daughter.
The only way is to get involved and go to shows, be a member of the clubs, they are some that have good points. I highly doubt any breeder that was breeding with health as a priority (there are some) would be breeding dad/daughter.
Margaret C
Well-known member
It would not cross many buyers' minds, which is why I am writing about it here.
Checking that their puppy does not come from lines that are too inbred is another thing that an educated UK puppy buyer can do to help give themselves a better chance of a healthy pet & the breed a better future.
Asking these questions, as well as asking about health tests, will persuade breeders to look at the amount of inbreeding in their dogs and encourage them to plan matings that reduce it.
I did not say that any cavalier breeder would be doing such close matings ( they are now banned in the UK )
What I am pointing out is that many of our seemingly unrelated cavaliers can share more genes, and therefore have a greater chance of inherited problems, than a puppy from a parent/child breeding.
This is a legacy of generations of close breeding. and the UK Kennel Club has introduced this Mate Select programme because this problem is so common in pedigree dogs.
Mate select
MATE SELECT
May I add to my Previous Posts , with the Replys I 've received from the Kennel Club about their MATE SELECT , it seems as if they are a wee bit unwilling to accept that Good Breeding MUST BE LINKED WITH HEALTH AND WELFARE
IN-BREEDING which makes Genetic Problems be brought to the Fore, has to be involved with Health and Welfare.
So I will say again, if the CM/SM and MVD Health Problems are not being Involved with our Cavalier Breed in the Kennel Club's MATE SELECT how is it going to be of any use to our Cavaliers.
I am sorry if what I am saying is causing Distress to some ,but the Facts about the Health in our Beloved Cavaliers has to be faced.
About 90% have CM
50% have a Heart Murmur at 5-6 years of age, this is no better than about 18 years ago,nearly most Cavaliers are Carriers of the MVD Gene/Genes.
This means that when TWO Carriers are Mated to-gether , even if they don't have MVD ,there is every chance of the Off-Springs being Affected with MVD.
We have to STOP DELUDING OURSELVES that all is well with our Cavalier Breed , even the Kennel Club is mentioning an OUT CROSS for Cavaliers.
Bet
MATE SELECT
May I add to my Previous Posts , with the Replys I 've received from the Kennel Club about their MATE SELECT , it seems as if they are a wee bit unwilling to accept that Good Breeding MUST BE LINKED WITH HEALTH AND WELFARE
IN-BREEDING which makes Genetic Problems be brought to the Fore, has to be involved with Health and Welfare.
So I will say again, if the CM/SM and MVD Health Problems are not being Involved with our Cavalier Breed in the Kennel Club's MATE SELECT how is it going to be of any use to our Cavaliers.
I am sorry if what I am saying is causing Distress to some ,but the Facts about the Health in our Beloved Cavaliers has to be faced.
About 90% have CM
50% have a Heart Murmur at 5-6 years of age, this is no better than about 18 years ago,nearly most Cavaliers are Carriers of the MVD Gene/Genes.
This means that when TWO Carriers are Mated to-gether , even if they don't have MVD ,there is every chance of the Off-Springs being Affected with MVD.
We have to STOP DELUDING OURSELVES that all is well with our Cavalier Breed , even the Kennel Club is mentioning an OUT CROSS for Cavaliers.
Bet
ByFloSin
Well-known member
I would have liked to see a value put upon grandfather/granddaughter matings too. When looking at many modern pedigrees IMHO there is still a high proportion of these relationships shown, often featuring mutual grandparent(s) on both sides and of course the further back you look the more common it gets.
Nothing is perfect, but surely this is a good start:xctly:
Nothing is perfect, but surely this is a good start:xctly:
Margaret C
Well-known member
sins
Well-known member
I'm actually going to surprise myself and say I like it!
It's a neat database and easy to navigate.
If you want to buy a puppy and you know the sire and dam of the puppies.
Go to mate select.
Calculate the %COI for the theoretical mating.
The screen will give you the result..say 4.9%
Then look underneath the sire and dam.
There's a little highlighted tab "Health tests" and by clicking,you can access the heath tests carried out on sire and dam.At the moment only the eye test is online and I know it's not complete as yet.
When the BVA/KC for SM goes live,you will be able to see if the parents have at least been scanned under the scheme,if not see the actual published results.
I presume there are no objections to having such data available on the KC healthfinder?
Flo,the Mateselect carries details of the %COI for various related matings.
If you calculate the COI of an individual dog,underneath the result,there is a paragraph which tells you:
An inbreeding coefficient of 12.5% means that there is a 1 in 8 chance that a dog will inherit the same version of gene from the same dog that appears in both the sire’s and dam’s pedigree. For example, the puppies born to a mother/son, father/daughter or brother/sister mating would be at least 25%; the risk associated with such a high inbreeding coefficient is considered too high and the KC will no longer register the puppies from such matings. The inbreeding coefficient of puppies born from a grandfather/granddaughter mating would be at least 12.5%.
So In reality,there's plenty of information available,with the potential to make more info available when the BVA/KC schemes come on line.
It's very promising I think.
Sins
It's a neat database and easy to navigate.
If you want to buy a puppy and you know the sire and dam of the puppies.
Go to mate select.
Calculate the %COI for the theoretical mating.
The screen will give you the result..say 4.9%
Then look underneath the sire and dam.
There's a little highlighted tab "Health tests" and by clicking,you can access the heath tests carried out on sire and dam.At the moment only the eye test is online and I know it's not complete as yet.
When the BVA/KC for SM goes live,you will be able to see if the parents have at least been scanned under the scheme,if not see the actual published results.
I presume there are no objections to having such data available on the KC healthfinder?
Flo,the Mateselect carries details of the %COI for various related matings.
If you calculate the COI of an individual dog,underneath the result,there is a paragraph which tells you:
An inbreeding coefficient of 12.5% means that there is a 1 in 8 chance that a dog will inherit the same version of gene from the same dog that appears in both the sire’s and dam’s pedigree. For example, the puppies born to a mother/son, father/daughter or brother/sister mating would be at least 25%; the risk associated with such a high inbreeding coefficient is considered too high and the KC will no longer register the puppies from such matings. The inbreeding coefficient of puppies born from a grandfather/granddaughter mating would be at least 12.5%.
So In reality,there's plenty of information available,with the potential to make more info available when the BVA/KC schemes come on line.
It's very promising I think.
Sins
Mate select
MATE SELECT
How is this a good start when GOOD CAVALIER BREEDING MUST BE LINKED to the Health and Welfare of our Cavaliers.
How can this be separated from MATE SELECT, so what information is MATE Select giving to Prospective Cavalier Buyers, what they want to know is ,had the Parents of the Cavalier no SM or MVD Problem when Mated,what is the Staus of the Grand- Parents,.
Surely the most Simple way is for Cavalier Breeders when Breeding from their Cavaliers.
DO NOT BREED FROM A CAVALIER WHO HAS SM OR MVD AND NOT BEFORE THE CAVALIER IS 2.5 YEARS OF AGE, and know the Health Status of the Parents at 5.
I would have thought that this is the most Sensible way to move forward when Breeding Cavaliers.
So I will repeat again, in what way is the MATE SELECT going to help our Cavaliers with their SM and MVD Problems, when those Health Problems are are rife in the Cavalier Breed .
It is just a waste of time if the Cavalier Breeders are still using Unhealthy Cavalier Breeding Stock.
I don't think the Cavalier Buying Public should be being conned into thinking that the Mate Select will be of much help to our Beloved Cavaliers and their SM and MVD Problems.
The Cavaliers have waited for over 20 years to try and get help for their MVD Problem ,have they to wait for many ,many years for Some-body to get an Answer as to how the Kennel Club's MATE SELECT will give them the Chance of Healthier ,Longer Lives.
Bet
MATE SELECT
How is this a good start when GOOD CAVALIER BREEDING MUST BE LINKED to the Health and Welfare of our Cavaliers.
How can this be separated from MATE SELECT, so what information is MATE Select giving to Prospective Cavalier Buyers, what they want to know is ,had the Parents of the Cavalier no SM or MVD Problem when Mated,what is the Staus of the Grand- Parents,.
Surely the most Simple way is for Cavalier Breeders when Breeding from their Cavaliers.
DO NOT BREED FROM A CAVALIER WHO HAS SM OR MVD AND NOT BEFORE THE CAVALIER IS 2.5 YEARS OF AGE, and know the Health Status of the Parents at 5.
I would have thought that this is the most Sensible way to move forward when Breeding Cavaliers.
So I will repeat again, in what way is the MATE SELECT going to help our Cavaliers with their SM and MVD Problems, when those Health Problems are are rife in the Cavalier Breed .
It is just a waste of time if the Cavalier Breeders are still using Unhealthy Cavalier Breeding Stock.
I don't think the Cavalier Buying Public should be being conned into thinking that the Mate Select will be of much help to our Beloved Cavaliers and their SM and MVD Problems.
The Cavaliers have waited for over 20 years to try and get help for their MVD Problem ,have they to wait for many ,many years for Some-body to get an Answer as to how the Kennel Club's MATE SELECT will give them the Chance of Healthier ,Longer Lives.
Bet
Margaret C
Well-known member
At the moment Mate Select can only show the degree of inbreeding, but it will link up with the EBVs.
As I understand it, when the researchers at AHT eventually get enough SM & MVD results to be able to introduce EBVs for cavaliers, the genetic diversity of the dog, and even the overuse of popular sires, will be factored into the results that will help breeders choose less risky mating combinations.
We need the BVA/KC Scheme for MRI scans and a long promised but seemingly stalled official MVD scheme to be put in place and used by breeders.
Listening to the Health Report at the recent Cavalier Club AGM it would appear that every health initiative is disappearing into the big black hole called the 'Cavalier Health Liaison Council'
Looking at their website http://www.cavalierhealth.co.uk/ they promise...........
"we will tell you what the CHLC has agreed and what resources are available to breeders."
But unfortunately they don't, not even when you write and ask.
The website itself contains virtually no information. The list of health events finishes at 9th April and contains nothing about future health testing opportunities.
It does not inspire me to think that they are actively pursuing the official heart scheme, the setting up of a sperm bank, a database for the dry eye/curly coat & EFS DNA tests, or even a request from a leading cardiologist for help with a research project into older heart clear cavaliers.
I wonder what they are doing? Perhaps someone will read this and post a progress report.