Mate Select

[RodRussell]

... THIS IS AN IN-BREEDING CO-EFFICIENT of at least 12.5 %

THIS MEANS ALL THE OFF-SPRINGS HAVE THE RISK of a 1in 8 Chance of developing CM or MVD ...

I don't think it means that, at all. I don't think the COI has anything to do with MVD or CM/SM. Those two disorders are well beyond being saved by following the COI.

We already know that the chances of any cavalier puppy contracting MVD are (+/-) 9.5 in 10, not 1 in 8. The same situation is the case with CM.

 

[Margaret C]

I have interpreted what you say about you have been in touch with the Kennel club, that you have asked them who will breed the stock from puppy farms, fogive me if I have interpreted this incorrectly.
So you yourself have no idea who will take on this challenge?

It may be that breeders will need to consider this at some time just to bring in some genetic diversity.
I suppose it rather depends on how many show breeders will take advantage of the new initiatives designed to help them produce healthier cavaliers.

I know of a non-show bred dog with quite a few known puppy farm ancestors in the pedigree. He is a Grade A dog.

You have said in your reply
'a Cavalier Champion with a Low COI was diagnosed with a Heart Condition at 2.5 years of age ,died at 6.' and pups he sired, also had this problem.

I don't dispute this at all, and it is a shame that he was used at stud. But there have been dogs used at stud I'm sure that were clear of heart problems and even SM? but later developed the conditions, and more importantly (unfortunately) passed those conditions on.

My Monty ( Ch. Mareve Indiana ) was one of those who did not develop obvious SM symptoms until long after his stud career was over. Because he was a popular sire ( it was considered a great thing in those days, and I suppose that continues, considering there are still awards for best stud dog ) he spread SM worldwide through his champion offspring.
As it happens so did nearly other stud dog at that time, but, unlike me, their owners followed the breeders code of silence http://letsdiscussjudging.com/Omerta.html and refused to admit it even when the seriousness of the problem became apparent.

I would maintain that the fact that dogs with late onset conditions were unknowingly used, does not excuse those who deliberately use early-onset affected dogs, or owners that know there is a breed problem but still refuse to health check before they breed their dogs.

Whatever happens breeders will not be able to totally iradicate health problems, however careful they are, as nature is such that a condition can lie dormant for generations and then suddenly manifest itself.

But responsible breeders should try to limit their impact for the sake of the dogs ?

What is interesting is that you have shown that low COI's in themselves, aren't the answer to breeding for healthy stock. Which was the point I was making also..

I don't think anyone is saying it is more than one of the many things to be considered when planning a litter, but when there are litters of 33.7% and 28.7% registered in the latest BRS, perhaps the Mate Select initiative will help pet buyers avoid buying puppies from such potentially risky matings.

Unless you or anyone, only breeds from healthy stock in the first place then COIs, whether high or low, are not going to make any difference.

The important thing is to use healthy tested, clear stock. I think we both agree on this .

Stock from puppy farms and BYBs on the whole, do not fulfill this criteria.

But the same holds true of quite a few of the show breeders. Pet owners certainly come forward to tell us of the unhealthy untested dogs they have been sold from breeders that boast of long lived dogs with good hearts and no SM.
Interestingly these breeders are those that have very few entries in the MRI list, or the over 5 health list, and their healthy older dogs are never entered in any of the veteran classes for other people to admire.

 

[Karlin]

Interestingly these breeders are those that have very few entries in the MRI list, or the over 5 health list, and their healthy older dogs are never entered in any of the veteran classes for other people to admire.

And the ones who boast of their long-lived, high COI dogs... But don't mention the ones they have bred which they know have been producing SM, for example?

Low COIs are not a solution in themselves to all problems but there isn't a geneticist alive who will not confirm that wild populations become unsustainable, collapse and die out at far lower COIs than you see even in the lowest COI dog breeds. The roll of the genetic dice means anyone -- show breeder or puppy farmer -- is going to produce the occasional high-COI dog that lives til 16 but this will be the exception -- it is ludicrous to claim, as some breeders seem to keep doing, that high COI dogs actually have greater longevity!

These dogs increasingly are going to be the genetic flukes, not the norm, especially in a breed that has as short a modern history as cavaliers. The breed only goes back to a dozen ancestors post WW11, a couple of which sadly seem to have fixed MVD and SM into the breed in the first decade or two of close interbreeding.

A higher COI means less genetic diversity -- and the well known accompaniment of gradual multiplication of genetic problems. Just because dogs can be artificially bred by humans to fix breed traits and curtail natural genetic diversity does not mean humans should not take responsibility to keep COIs as low as possible to try and limit the damage *always* eventually caused by less genetic diversity.

 

[Bet]

Mate select

And the ones who boast of their long-lived, high COI dogs... But don't mention the ones they have bred which they know have been producing SM, for example?

Low COIs are not a solution in themselves to all problems but there isn't a geneticist alive who will not confirm that wild populations become unsustainable, collapse and die out at far lower COIs than you see even in the lowest COI dog breeds. The roll of the genetic dice means anyone -- show breeder or puppy farmer -- is going to produce the occasional high-COI dog that lives til 16 but this will be the exception -- it is ludicrous to claim, as some breeders seem to keep doing, that high COI dogs actually have greater longevity!

These dogs increasingly are going to be the genetic flukes, not the norm, especially in a breed that has as short a modern history as cavaliers. The breed only goes back to a dozen ancestors post WW11, a couple of which sadly seem to have fixed MVD and SM into the breed in the first decade or two of close interbreeding.

A higher COI means less genetic diversity -- and the well known accompaniment of gradual multiplication of genetic problems. Just because dogs can be artificially bred by humans to fix breed traits and curtail natural genetic diversity does not mean humans should not take responsibility to keep COIs as low as possible to try and limit the damage *always* eventually caused by less genetic diversity.

MATE SELECT


I just add any-thing to the Two Excellant Posts from Karlin and Margaret only to mention ,that about a year ago this information was Posted by a Cavalier Club Member.

In the October - December 2009 Kennel Club Breed Record Supplement for Cavaliers

TOTAL NUMBER OF CAVALIER LITTERS REGISTERED 544

TOTAL NUMBER OF LITTERS REGISTERED BY CKCS CLUB MEMBERS 102 .Which is 18.75 %

In the January -March 2009 Breed Record Supplement

TOTAL NUMBER OF CAVALIER LITTERS REGISTERED 612

TOTAL NUMBER OF LITTERS REGISTERED BY CKCS CLUB MEMBERS 129 .Which is 21%.

So the 5.2 % COI must be coming from Cavaliers Registered outwith Cavalier Litters being Bred from CKCS CLUB MEMBERS Breeding Stock.
These figures are only about a 1.5 Years old, so I don't think there will have been much change.

Perhaps if the BVA/KC MRI and MVD RESULTS are Published, then it will be discovered if those Cavaliers with Low COI's out-with CKCS CLUB MEMBER BREEDERS have not so many Problems from SM and MVD

Bet

 

[sins]

I'll try once more...
The COI breed average of 5.2% for cavaliers cannot be precise or accurate.
BECAUSE the computerised KC database upon which the COI calculations are based exclude the true founders of the breed and the highly inbred post war cavaliers.
Instead cavaliers from the 1960s who would have a very high COI% have been artificially allocated COI% of 0 and taken as the unrelated founders of a breed.
many of these cavaliers Bet, are on your list of long lived cavaliers accompanied by their %COI's.
It's got little to do with puppyfarms having greater genetic diversity.In fact I'd be amazed if they did, as a large breeding establishment with a few hundred bitches would not keep that many stud dogs.Again a small few dogs would be siring many litters.
Sins

 

[Karlin]

Sins that is interesting on how the low COIs were set.

I do think that actually there would be better genetic diversity in many puppy farm bred dogs. A lot of them would come from a far more diverse background than show dogs that keep going back to smaller show breeding circles for champion studs and related cousins etc. As many good breeders have found, even choosing what at first seem to be distantly or non related cavaliers from other show breeders for mates, doesn;t work as planned because they often end up with a startlingly high COI when they were deliberately seeking a low COI. The cousins for example are often very closely related but a glance at pedigree alone may make them seem more distant than they actually are. Puppy farmers on the other hand are not trying to breed closely at all, and all evidence I've seen indicates they tend to have a lot of dogs through from many different sources, and don't use them for breeding for long (though they breed them intensively) -- especially if they are registering litters -- they tend to be through by age 6-ish (the age when a lot of rescues who get given puppy farm breeding dogs to rehome get the dogs, and also the age at which I have bought a few dogs cheaply off puppy farmers as they have had all the litters they can legally register by then).

There is some growing evidence that non show breeder and puppy farm dogs would have lower COIs. Bet's pedigrees are of interest to quite a few people in this regard.

Certainly a lot of dogs I get into rescue, with pedigrees, have a real diversity of dogs, not the same dogs repeating over generations. I do think that dogs from such backgrounds could be an invaluable resource in trying to rebuild the breed. It certainly bears further research to see how it works out -- especially when the KC is toying with outcrossing.

 

[Brian M]

Hi

Just for interest I input my four girls and the results are ,no screening records for this dog.

1 ) Poppy - Happy Starshine 3.5 %
2 ) Daisy - Loranka's Dawns Delight 23.3 %
3 ) Rosie - Lichens Tartan Breeze 4.2 %
4 ) Lily - Ailcres Blue Emotion 8.9 %

A big difference foam our Pops to Dangerous Daisy.

 

[Margaret C]

Help needed.... Comments please on new page of website

I am thinking of adding some information about inbreeding to my puppy buying advice website www.cavalierpuppy.co.uk

It is a very complicated topic to simplify for a website written with first time buyers in mind.

This is my first draft..............Does it make sense to UK cavalier owners that are not familiar with inbreeding coefficients, and were you able to use your own cavaliers' names to follow the instructions and find their COIs?

I would be very grateful to have your comments...................

Pedigrees & Inbreeding

A pedigree is a dog's family tree. Breeders of Kennel Club registered cavaliers should give their puppy buyers a copy along with the registration papers.

A copy of a pedigree can be seen here... ( Will link to a copy of Monty's pedigree )

Cavaliers as a breed were recreated in 1925, when a prize was offered by an American gentleman for the dog that most resembled the little spaniels in old paintings.

All Cavaliers descend from a very few flat faced King Charles Spaniels and this means they all share a great many of the same genes.
Because of this 'small gene pool' puppies are at increased risk from inheriting the same bad genes from both parents.

As well as checking the parents' health certificates, puppy buyers would be well advised to check on just how inbred their puppy will be.

The Kennel Club now have a Mate Select programme that will allow you to check how inbred any cavalier is. This figure, known as the inbreeding coefficient ( COI ), can be worked out following the instructions here
http://www.the-kennel-club.org.uk/services/public/mateselect/Default.aspx

The average COI for a cavalier is 5.2%, so any figure much above this should be regarded with caution.

If you know your puppy's registered name you can work out the COI yourself, using the link 'calculation for an individual dog'.
If the litter is not yet registered ask for the parents' registered names and use the link for a 'hypothetical mating' ( this also works for existing matings)

 

[Davecav]

Just one point I would like to raise, that is it looks as if the pedigrees used by the Kennel Club are inclomplete, in so far as they only go back a certain number of generations; so at the moment any inference taken from the Mate Select Site will be false.

Until the Kennel Club rectify this, you could be helping to spread incorrect information, right across the board.

You may argue it's all relative, as it affects all pedigrees, but the COI's are still being calculated using insufficient information.

I think the Kennel Club have some work to do and until they get it right this tool has deep flaws.

Maybe you could incorporate something to that effect into your information?

 

[Margaret C]

Just one point I would like to raise, that is it looks as if the pedigrees used by the Kennel Club are inclomplete, in so far as they only go back a certain number of generations; so at the moment any inference taken from the Mate Select Site will be false.

Until the Kennel Club rectify this, you could be helping to spread incorrect information, right across the board.

You may argue it's all relative, as it affects all pedigrees, but the COI's are still being calculated using insufficient information.

I think the Kennel Club have some work to do and until they get it right this tool has deep flaws.

Maybe you could incorporate something to that effect into your information?

Thank you for your comments, and yes you are right, there are flaws.

( Anyone wanting to know more details can read about both the good and the bad aspects of Mate Select on this link, but don't blame me for some of the language...........
http://pedigreedogsexposed.blogspot.com/2011/05/mate-select-good-but-no-cigar-just-yet.html#comments )

I have thought carefully about what you have said, but I do not think that it would be possible to explain the drawbacks of Mate Select in one or two simple sentences.

I set up my website with two aims in mind.
The first was to give uncomplicated advice to first time cavalier buyers, and the second was to put pressure, through these more knowledgeable buyers, on those breeders who were not breeding in a responsible manner.

I have decided that including Mate Select, as it is, for the reasons stated below......................

"COIs of individual dogs will be fairly accurate, at least in terms of recent inbreeding"

"for casual breeders and pet owners, Mate Select offers a really simple, intuitive way to find out a bit of info on individual dogs, encouraging them to think about genetic diversity and, particularly, to breed for lower COIs without all the hassle and hard work of trawling through endless pedigree information."

 

[Bet]

Mate select

Just one point I would like to raise, that is it looks as if the pedigrees used by the Kennel Club are inclomplete, in so far as they only go back a certain number of generations; so at the moment any inference taken from the Mate Select Site will be false.

Until the Kennel Club rectify this, you could be helping to spread incorrect information, right across the board.

You may argue it's all relative, as it affects all pedigrees, but the COI's are still being calculated using insufficient information.

I think the Kennel Club have some work to do and until they get it right this tool has deep flaws.

Maybe you could incorporate something to that effect into your information?

MATE SELECT

Davecav ,you have to also remember, that the further you go back in a Cavaliers' Pedigree there are many instances of HIGH COI's.

May I be allowed to give some.


CH BYROSE GOLDEN HIND 35%

Ch CRISDIG MERRY MATELOT 35%

Ch CRISDIG BUTTONS 31%

Ch MILKEYN MASCOT 31%

Ch MILKEYN MATCHMAKER 31 %

Ch ALBERTO Of KINDRUM 21 %

Now he was born in 1986 ,Ch BARSAC TOUCH AND GO 23%..1983,Ch CHANTIZ THYME 21% ,1984,Ch CINOLA SUPER TRAMP OF DEERIEM 21% 1981

Those Names I have given ,it will be noted will be included in the MATE SELECT Information, were born in the 1980's ,so the Question has to be asked ,where have the other Cavaliers come from that have given the MATE SELECT the 5.2 Figure.

Have they come from Cavaliers Bred in Puppy Farms?

As I said in my Previous Post ,and I will repeat it again.

This information was given by a CKCS BREEDER who is a Member of the CKCS CLUB about a year and a half ago.

This information was taken from the Kennel Club's Cavalier Breed Supplement

OCTOBER-DECEMBER 2009

TOTAL NUMBER OF CAVALIER LITTERS REGISTERED 544

TOTAL NUMBER NUMBER OF CAVALIER LITTERS BRED BY CKCS CLUB MEMBERS 102 .....WHICH IS 18.75%

JANUARY - MARCH 2009

TOTAL NUMBER OF LITTERS REGISTERED 612.
TOTAL NUMBER OF LITTERS BRED BY CKCS CLUB MEMBERS 129 ... WHICH IS 21%

What this Information tells us is, that Many Many Cavaliers at that time in 2009 were Bred by Cavalier Breeders out-with the CKCS CLUB.

So for the CAVALIER COI to be as Low as 5.2, where have those Cavaliers been Bred ,did they have SM and MVD or not , this is what we should be trying to find out, if they have been Registered by Puppy Farmers etc, had no SM or MVD, the SHOW Breeders should take this on Board , and if a Different Type of Cavalier has to be being Bred but can be giving our Cavaliers the Chance of Healthier, Longer Lives ,but won't be Winning in the Show Ring .

THE SO BE IT !!!


Bet

 

[Davecav]

Thank you Margaret, I found the link interesting.
I have tried out the Mate Select and I found it very easy to use, and as you say it is at least a tool that could help.
However I still feel a caveat should be added to it (sorry to be a pain) and also if it is used it should be used in conjunction with knowing the health status of the parents (and maybe even g.parents) of the potential puppy.

I still think that the clear health of parents and g.parents is more important than for example, a low COI, and only limited health info on parents.

What I'm trying to say is that some people may get frightened off by a higher COI from v.carefully bred and tested dogs over two, or even 3 generations, and plum for a dog that doesn't have as good ancestory of health tested forebears, just because it has a low COI.

added - To do a comparison, if I was to buy a car, and there was a Mate Select programme to give me the facts about that particular make/model, and the info was incomplete? and I bought a car (pup) because of this. OK more fool me, but it isn't giving the best information when it could be wrong.

 

[sins]

CH BYROSE GOLDEN HIND 35% ........could not be found on mateselect

Ch CRISDIG MERRY MATELOT 35%.....insufficient pedigree information on mateselect.

Ch CRISDIG BUTTONS 31%..............insufficient pedigree information on mateselect.

Ch MILKEYN MASCOT 31%................15.4% on Mateselect.

Ch MILKEYN MATCHMAKER 31 %.......15.4% on Mateselect.

Ch ALBERTO Of KINDRUM 21 %..........9.3% on Mateselect.

Barsac Touch and Go, you say 23% Mateselect says 8.2%
Chantiz Thyme.........,you say 21%, Mateselect says 4.7%.
Homeranne Caption comes in at 0.8%.
Go back and check out Daywell Roger,any of the Pargeters?

Now please convince me why I should check mateselect and take any data it gives me into account if I plan to buy a puppy.
Mateselect says the breed average COI% is 5.2%...anyone want to bet their house on it being right????

I should add that the 5.2% figure may have been arrived at due to the omission of many old showlines rather than the inclusion of commercially bred dogs in recent times.

Sins

 

[Bet]

Mate select

CH BYROSE GOLDEN HIND 35% ........could not be found on mateselect

Ch CRISDIG MERRY MATELOT 35%.....insufficient pedigree information on mateselect.

Ch CRISDIG BUTTONS 31%..............insufficient pedigree information on mateselect.

Ch MILKEYN MASCOT 31%................15.4% on Mateselect.

Ch MILKEYN MATCHMAKER 31 %.......15.4% on Mateselect.

Ch ALBERTO Of KINDRUM 21 %..........9.3% on Mateselect.

Barsac Touch and Go, you say 23% Mateselect says 8.2%
Chantiz Thyme.........,you say 21%, Mateselect says 4.7%.
Homerbrent caption doesn't even exist on the database...
Go back and check out Daywell Roger,any of the Pargeters?

Now please convince me why I should check mateselect and take any data it gives me into account if I plan to buy a puppy.
Mateselect says the breed average COI% is 5.2%...anyone want to bet their house on it being right????

I should add that the 5.2% figure may have been arrived at due to the omission of many old showlines rather than the inclusion of commercially bred dogs in recent times.

Sins

MATE SELECT


SINS,


The information I gave was done by a Lady in America who I was doing Pedigrees for.

The COI Program she used was for I think 20 Generations,but I am not sure ,if you wan't to check on more of the COI Information ,go to the Heritage Page, CKCS CLUB.USA.

The Point I am trying to make is that some CKCS CLUB MEMBERS have said over and over again that there are so Many Cavaliers Registered not by UK CKCS CLUB MEMBERS, so when the COI for CAVALIERS IS 5.2 and it is the Minority of CKCS CLUB MEMBERS who have Registered Cavaliers , then is it not the Case that it is the 75 % of CKCS who were Registered in the Figures for 2009 from the BRS ,and I expect that will be the Total for other years, another Gentleman has worked out the Comparison between CKCS CLUB MEMBERS 'CAVALIERS REGISTERED and the OTHERS, has some-body got those Figures.

The KENNEL CLUB has explained that their MATE SELECT only goes back to 1980.I would think if any-body is interested enough, they will have to buy a COI Program that covers more Generations.

Does this really matter though, what has caught my eye and I am sure other Cavalier Folk will have noticed this as well ,I never bothered about the COI's of the Present Day Cavalier Show Dogs, but since Mate SELECT I have now, and if HIGH COI'S are causing Problems particularly to the OFF -SPRINGS of those SHOW CAVALIERS who are now having even Higher COI'S than their Parents. then is it not about time that this was being thought about.


Bet

 

[sins]

In light of what I've just put to you - are you still certain the the breed average COI% is 5.2%.
There's a disproportionate amount of focus being put on an arbitrary figure,which may not accurately reflect the true picture of breed COI.
How confusing is this for people who just want a pet cavalier?
As if it's not bad enough needing heart and eye certs and being able to read MRI scans,we're now expected to consider genetic tests like DE/CC and EF.
and if that's not enough,we now have to find puppies from litters with just the "right amount" of genetic diversity,and perhaps a dose of puppy farmed stock chucked into the pedigree for good measure in order to reach a flawed %COI.:?.
Here's the thing,Even the most zealous health focused breeders want to improve their stock in terms of conformation.I've not yet met a breeder who doesn't want the next generation to make progress.
Also puppy buyers want their pets to look like cavaliers,especially if they're paying two weeks wages for one.
Most health focused breeders simply don't have enough puppies to sell to pet owners.Setting unrealistic expectations for buyers isn't fair.
The facts are, that you'll still be very lucky to buy a puppy from fully health tested parents,i.e. heart,eyes,scans with maybe two or three of the grandparents scanned.
Seriously,if you go to a breeder and start asking for %COIs on top of all the above,you'll either be laughed at or shown the door..
This elusive perfect cavalier simply doesn't exist.I wish it did.
Looking for the perfect cavalier is a bit like looking for the perfect man...eventually you'll just give up and settle for a husband.
Sins

 

[Davecav]

Thank you Sins, you have said everything I've been thinking, and more.

 

[Davecav]

Bet you have said:

"I never bothered about the COI's of the Present Day Cavalier Show Dogs, but since Mate SELECT I have now, and if HIGH COI'S are causing Problems particularly to the OFF -SPRINGS of those SHOW CAVALIERS who are now having even Higher COI'S than their Parents. then is it not about time that this was being thought about."

Bet - you've been banging on about inbreeding in cavaliers over and over again. What did you think inbred cavaliers were, if not cavaliers with high COI's?
You're first phrase sums it up.

 

[Bet]

Mate select

In light of what I've just put to you - are you still certain the the breed average COI% is 5.2%.
There's a disproportionate amount of focus being put on an arbitrary figure,which may not accurately reflect the true picture of breed COI.
How confusing is this for people who just want a pet cavalier?
As if it's not bad enough needing heart and eye certs and being able to read MRI scans,we're now expected to consider genetic tests like DE/CC and EF.
and if that's not enough,we now have to find puppies from litters with just the "right amount" of genetic diversity,and perhaps a dose of puppy farmed stock chucked into the pedigree for good measure in order to reach a flawed %COI.:?.
Here's the thing,Even the most zealous health focused breeders want to improve their stock in terms of conformation.I've not yet met a breeder who doesn't want the next generation to make progress.
Also puppy buyers want their pets to look like cavaliers,especially if they're paying two weeks wages for one.
Most health focused breeders simply don't have enough puppies to sell to pet owners.Setting unrealistic expectations for buyers isn't fair.
The facts are, that you'll still be very lucky to buy a puppy from fully health tested parents,i.e. heart,eyes,scans with maybe two or three of the grandparents scanned.
Seriously,if you go to a breeder and start asking for %COIs on top of all the above,you'll either be laughed at or shown the door..
This elusive perfect cavalier simply doesn't exist.I wish it did.
Looking for the perfect cavalier is a bit like looking for the perfect man...eventually you'll just give up and settle for a husband.
Sins

MATE SELECT


Sins, what Buyers of Cavaliers want is a Cavalier who has tha chance of Healthier ,Longer Lives than that they are getting at the Moment

Yes Cavalier Puppies cost an Arm and a Leg and the Buyers don't want to have to pay much more on Medication ,so I really do think that is their Prority .

You ask me if I am certain that the CKCS Breed average is 5.2, I am believing what the Experts are telling us, Neither you nor I have the Expertise to argue wih them.

What has shocked me with your Post, and it's not often I answer back, but when you say that it's bad enough for Cavalier Breeders having to do all the Tests that are involved with Breeding Cavaliers with-out having to do any-more.

All I can say to this Comment, is if it's Too Hot then Get out of The Kitichen ,and leave the Breeding of Cavaliers to the Cavalier Breeders who are Prepared to do do this to give our Cavalier Breed Hope for the Future.

Bet

 

[sins]

Bet,
Noone knows more than I do what cavalier buyers want.
I've bought two in the last 18 months,the last one only 3 months ago.
You on the other hand have decided not to embrace cavalier ownership yourself, so don't actually have first hand experience of sourcing a puppy that recent buyers would.
Let me tell you...it's not an easy task!
Basically demand outstrips supply..
As for experts...even the experts are aware of the flaws in Mateselect as are the kennel Club themselves.
As for not being qualified to argue with experts...I feel scarely qualified to even search for a puppy again,let alone own a cavalier.Next time I look for a puppy,I'll attach a copy of my CV maybe with my enquiry.That should help!

you say that it's bad enough for Cavalier Breeders having to do all the Tests that are involved with Breeding Cavaliers with-out having to do any-more.

No Bet,I did not say that..
I'm simply pointing out the realities of what the puppy buyer will face.
I'm debating this issue from the point of a puppy buyer,not a breeder.
I AM saying,that it's not easy to find a cavalier puppy from fully health tested parents who has been bred from parents over the age of 2.5 years.
By applying the COI figure on Mateselect of 5.2% as a yardstick by which to discard litters from your search,you will be effectively eliminating the vast majority of puppies which may be offered to you from health tested parents.
Simples!
Sins

 

[sins]

Bringing the thread back on topic.
From Mateselect:

The system actually calculates the COI of every dog on the registration database, it then draws information from this to calculate the average. At the moment the average quoted is that for all dogs born in 2010. This might not be ideal and we are still debating what might be the most meaningful way of calculating this average

Sins